GOP Debate - New Hamp - CNN - Monday 8-10

THE KOD

Registered
Forum Member
Nov 16, 2001
42,497
260
83
Victory Lane
Mitt Romney keeps making the case that the health care plan he put into place in Massachusetts is substantially different from the health care law signed by President Barack Obama.

At a debate Monday in New Hampshire, Romney continued that theme. One difference was, he said, that his state plan didn?t make any changes to Medicare, the federal health insurance program for the elderly.

?Obamacare takes $500 billion out of Medicare and funds Obamacare,? Romney said.

We decided to put his statement to the Truth-O-Meter.

To begin with, the Massachusetts plan and the federal plan are conceptually similar. Both leave in place the major insurance systems: employer-provided insurance, Medicare for seniors and Medicaid for the poor. They reduce the number of uninsured by expanding Medicaid and by offering tax breaks to help people with moderate incomes buy insurance. Individuals are required to have insurance or pay a penalty, a mechanism called the ?individual mandate.? And companies that don?t offer insurance to employees have to pay fines, with exceptions for small businesses and a few other cases.

Romney?s point was that the Massachusetts plan didn?t change Medicare, the health insurance program for people over age 65. We should note that Medicare is a federal program; states can?t change it anyway.

The national health care law, though, made several changes to Medicare, which makes up 12 percent of the federal budget.

In a few cases, the law actually increased Medicare spending to provide more benefits and coverage, according to the independent Kaiser Family Foundation.

Other provisions are designed to reduce future growth in Medicare spending, to encourage the program to operate more efficiently and to improve the delivery and quality of care. The bill doesn?t take money out of the current Medicare budget but, rather, attempts to slow the program?s future growth, curtailing just over $500 billion in expected spending increases over the next 10 years. Medicare spending, however, will still increase.

The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office projects Medicare spending will reach $929 billion in 2020, up from $499 billion in actual spending in 2009.

So while the health care law reduces the amount of future spending growth in Medicare, the law doesn?t cut Medicare.

Still, where does the $500 billion in future savings come from?

Nearly $220 billion comes from reducing annual increases in payments that health care providers would otherwise receive from Medicare. Other savings include $36 billion from increases in premiums for higher-income beneficiaries and $12 billion from administrative changes. The new Independent Payment Advisory Board will identify $15.5 billion in savings, but it is prohibited from proposing anything that would ration care or reduce or modify benefits. Then there?s an additional $136 billion in projected savings that would come from changes to the Medicare Advantage program. About 25 percent of Medicare beneficiaries are enrolled in a Medicare Advantage plan.

The law doesn?t take money out of Medicare, but Romney isn?t entirely wrong.

That?s because in creating the law, Democrats wanted to make sure they did not increase the federal deficit. The savings from Medicare offset new spending in the health care bill.

The major new spending in the bill comes from tax credits to help people of modest incomes buy health insurance and from expanding Medicaid. The tax credits and other cost-sharing subsidies are estimated to cost $350 billion over 10 years, while the Medicaid expansion costs $434 billion, according to the CBO.

Those two initiatives add up to more than $500 billion. So in addition to reducing Medicare spending, the law also increases Medicare taxes on the wealthy and creates new fees for the health care industry, as well as a few other things, to come up with the needed sums.

Romney said, ?Obamacare takes $500 billion out of Medicare and funds Obamacare.? He?s right that future savings from Medicare are planned to offset new costs created by the law. But he gives the impression that the law takes money that was already allocated to Medicare and funds the new health care law with it.

In fact, the law uses a number of measures to try to reduce the rapid growth of future Medicare spending. Those savings are then applied to costs created by the law ? especially coverage for the uninsured ? so that the overall law doesn?t add to the deficit. We rate his statement Half True
....................................................................

:facepalm:
 

THE KOD

Registered
Forum Member
Nov 16, 2001
42,497
260
83
Victory Lane
So, to recap: Texas schools are in crisis, but the government's response to a budget shortfall is to cut funding for education even further. It doesn't take someone with good math SAT scores to figure out what's going to happen next.

Once upon a time Texas prided itself on what it called the "Texas Miracle." The state initially didn't get hit as hard by the recession as other parts of the county, a fact that legislators claimed was due to its low-regulation, low-tax, business-friendly culture. During Rick Perry's re-election campaign last year, the governor boasted that the state had "billions in surplus." Less than two months later, however, the news of a gaping deficit made the miracle look a bit less wondrous, as Paul Krugman was quick to observe:

But reality has now intruded, in the form of a deficit expected to run as high as $25 billion over the next two years.

And that reality has implications for the nation as a whole. For Texas is where the modern conservative theory of budgeting -- the belief that you should never raise taxes under any circumstances, that you can always balance the budget by cutting wasteful spending -- has been implemented most completely. If the theory can't make it there, it can't make it anywhere.


Krugman is not exaggerating. Texas ranks 49th out of all 50 states in per capita state tax burden. There is no fat left to cut. When revenue collapses because of an economic downturn, what little social services remain must be gutted. And it's only going to get worse, because Texas' population is growing, and the demands for services will continue to rise.

Texas is clearly undertaxed, and so is the United States. The theory that low taxes and business-friendly regulations would keep everything humming smoothly appears to have been disproven by recent events. We'd all be a lot better of without having to see that theory proven again, at the national level.
.............................................................

:scared
 

Trampled Underfoot

Registered
Forum Member
Feb 26, 2001
13,593
164
63
Texas rates last in people without health care.

Texas rates 35th in poverty.

Texas is a shithole.

A girlfriend of mine said she was planning a short trip for next week. I told her I was jealous. My vacation isn't planned until later this summer. She told me she was going to Texas. I said I was sorry.

True story. :mj07:
 

THE KOD

Registered
Forum Member
Nov 16, 2001
42,497
260
83
Victory Lane
Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said on Monday he wanted his US counterpart Barack Obama to win re-election next year, fearing that the two men's efforts to improve ties may lose steam under a new administration.
"I can tell you directly -- I would like Barack Obama to be re-elected president of the United States maybe more than someone else," Medvedev said in an interview with the Financial Times whose full transcript was released by the Kremlin early Monday.

"If another person becomes US president then he may have another course," he said.

"We understand that there are representatives of a rather conservative wing there who are trying to achieve their political goals at the expense of inflaming passions in relation to Russia, among other things.

"But what use is criticising them? This is simply a way of achieving political goals."

Since being installed at the Kremlin by his mentor Vladimir Putin, known for his hawkish views, Medvedev has made improving ties with the United States a key plank of his foreign policies.

The "reset" in ties has yielded a key nuclear arms treaty, Russian support of a UN resolution on Libya and Medvedev's decision not to supply S-300 air defense missiles to Iran.

But asked whether he thought the "reset" in relations would last for a long time, Medvedev waxed philosophical. "Nothing lasts too long under the moon."
....................................................................

Finally Russia and America tolerate each other.

how the fawk did that happen ?

OBAMA in 2012 !
 

THE KOD

Registered
Forum Member
Nov 16, 2001
42,497
260
83
Victory Lane
I heard the Bachmann interview with Chris Wallace today.
She stumbled around on the questions of getting money for her counseling co.

But that was for the employees training. We got no money for that.

Yeh well did you or did you not benifit from it ?:scared

The farm subsidy . Yeh well that 260 K was for my father in laws farm. My husband and I did not get that money.

What ?:scared Did anyone you know benifit from that 260 grand ? :scared


Surprised Chris Wallace pussied out on that part.

She brings up again her 23 foster kids.

Bachmann claims to have had the kids like they were still living with her healthy and happy when in fact, they were placed with her for no more than several days to 2 or 3 weeks and that like all foster parents, Bachmann was paid for her services.

I would bet money she could not name 10 of the foster kids that were with her.

The ppl of Minn seem to have a very low regard for her from what I am reading.

GO GOP !
 

THE KOD

Registered
Forum Member
Nov 16, 2001
42,497
260
83
Victory Lane
New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie not only shoots down questions about running for president in 2012, he also doesn't think he's vice presidential material.

"The person that picked me as vice president would have to be sedated," Christie said Sunday on NBC's "Meet the Press." "Seriously, forget it."

The one-term Republican governor said his blunt talk, much of which has made him popular among national Republicans, means he isn't a good fit for the number two spot on the GOP ticket in the next election.

"I mean that's who I am and I don't think that's vice presidential material," Christie said referencing an interaction he had with a voter who questioned where he chooses to school his children.

..................................................

when does No mean no ?
 

THE KOD

Registered
Forum Member
Nov 16, 2001
42,497
260
83
Victory Lane
Looking to revive his flagging GOP campaign for president, Herman Cain today sat down with a group of American Muslims in Virginia ? and then issued the statement below, apologizing for a series of statements. In an impromptu interview in Iowa, Cain said he would not permit adherents of that faith in his cabinet:


While I stand by my opposition to the interference of shariah law into the American legal system, I remain humble and contrite for any statements I have made that might have caused offense to Muslim Americans and their friends. I am truly sorry for any comments that may have betrayed my commitment to the U.S. Constitution and the freedom of religion guaranteed by it. Muslims, like all Americans, have the right to practice their faith freely and peacefully.

As I expected, we discovered we have much more in common in our values and virtues. In my own life as a black youth growing up in the segregated South, I understand their frustration with stereotypes. Those in attendance, like most Muslim Americans, are peaceful Muslims and patriotic Americans whose good will is often drowned out by the reprehensible actions of jihadists.

I am encouraged by the bonds of friendship forged today at our meeting, and I look forward to continuing this very healthy dialogue. The relationship we established was so positive that the Imam has invited me back to speak to not only some of their youth, but also at one of their worship services.

........................................................................


Herman X in trouble now.

Ron Paul is done.

Palenty is history.

Palin not running.

Bachmann a tax and headache prone candidate.

Romney is Morman

Perry has his finger in the kitty jar.

Christy dont know what.
 

Chadman

Realist
Forum Member
Apr 2, 2000
7,501
42
48
SW Missouri
Yeah, some of the talking heads were being pretty dismissive of him last night, and I thought he did really well. He seems like a great choice for V.P. with his track record and seeming intelligence. Bachmann is hopefully finished, she just got steamrolled last night. Looks like a Romney/Perry race, as expected.
 

Trench

Turn it up
Forum Member
Mar 8, 2008
3,974
18
0
Mad City, WI
Yeah, some of the talking heads were being pretty dismissive of him last night, and I thought he did really well. He seems like a great choice for V.P. with his track record and seeming intelligence. Bachmann is hopefully finished, she just got steamrolled last night. Looks like a Romney/Perry race, as expected.
Yup, it's a Romney/Perry race at this point. I like Huntsman too but he's not going to get enough traction to give Romney/Perry a run. Republicans don't get behind moderates like Huntsman or even Romney for that matter. The fact that Perry's now the front-runner confirms that yet again.

Bachmann's done. She's still harping about gas prices being $1.79 when Obama took office. She conveniently forgets that gas was over $4 just months before that and the reason it dropped below $2 is because demand for oil dropped dramatically following the global economic crisis of 2008 and the subsequent spike in fuel prices. Bachmann was just a one-night-stand for the rabid right-wing base. They're now smitten with Rick Perry and his Texas twang.

It's interesting there are no right-wingers commenting in this thread. Maybe you guys are waiting to get your talking points from Rush? :shrug:
 

The Sponge

Registered User
Forum Member
Aug 24, 2006
17,263
97
0
I prolly like Romi more than any Republican that has run for president in a long time. Then again i really liked McCain until he completely reversed everything he stood for. :facepalm:
 

Trench

Turn it up
Forum Member
Mar 8, 2008
3,974
18
0
Mad City, WI
I prolly like Romi more than any Republican that has run for president in a long time. Then again i really liked McCain until he completely reversed everything he stood for. :facepalm:
I like Romney too and a Romney/Huntsman ticket would be very attractive to moderates. But I worry about Romney morphing into the kind of candidate McCain became in 2008 to try to win over the neoconservatives and the evangelicals (who, being a Mormon, he'll never win over). Hopefully Romney and his handlers will keep their eye on the general election, forget about the far right and let Rick Perry play to them.

That being said, not pandering to the far right-wing is one thing; having ideas and a plan for the country going forward is another. I still don't know what Romney's plans are to right the economy, cut the budget deficit, remove loopholes and shelters from the tax code, bring our troops home, diversify our energy platform, etc., etc.

We need leaders in Washington with vision. If we've lowered our standards to the point where we're now voting for the candidate who's least polarizing, it's a sad comment on the state of our country. Obama stepped into an extremely difficult situation but he had a mandate for change and he squandered it. Obama was a great candidate, but IMO, he's far from being a great President.
 
Last edited:

THE KOD

Registered
Forum Member
Nov 16, 2001
42,497
260
83
Victory Lane
2011-09-08T022735Z_01_LOA29_RTRIDSP_3_USA-CAMPAIGN-DEBATE.jpg


Perry threatens Ron Paul .

Looks like the Bully is going to kick old man Pauls
ass.


wtf.............

wait until Illum sees this........
 

THE KOD

Registered
Forum Member
Nov 16, 2001
42,497
260
83
Victory Lane
Yeah, some of the talking heads were being pretty dismissive of him last night, and I thought he did really well. He seems like a great choice for V.P. with his track record and seeming intelligence. Bachmann is hopefully finished, she just got steamrolled last night. Looks like a Romney/Perry race, as expected.

....................................................................

Bachman is done but will keep her mouth shut in hopes of a chance at the VP spot...
 

THE KOD

Registered
Forum Member
Nov 16, 2001
42,497
260
83
Victory Lane
I really like Herman X plan for taxs


9,9, 9

Nine percent on personal money

Nine percent on corporate


Nine percent sales tax...


That would solve so much bullchit in America,

The goverment would have more money than they could shake a stick at.

Only problem is we all know it will never happen because no more need for the IRS , tax ppl, and so many other ppl that get money from taxes.

Why does Herman X talk about things that he knows are impossible to get into our system

:facepalm: :facepalm:
 
Bet on MyBookie
Top