If you're going to shoot a Lion......
- Thread starter Sportsaholic
- Start date
The second way to make Palmer answer for his alleged crimes would be to extradite him to Zimbabwe to stand trial there. That would be a fairly simple affair. The United States has a generous extradition treaty with Zimbabwe, which contains a ?dual criminality? clause. Under the treaty, if an American commits an act in Zimbabwe that is illegal under both American and Zimbabwean law?and which is punishable by more than one year in prison?America is ?obligated? to extradite him to Zimbabwe (and vice versa). Palmer?s potential violation under the Travel Act is punishable by up to five years in prison under U.S. law; his alleged bribery is punishable by many years in prison in Zimbabwe. His crime thus fulfills the ?dual criminality? requirement of the treaty, and America must extradite him to Zimbabwe if the government so desires.
The full article:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/07/28/walter_palmer_alleged_lion_killer_he_can_be_tried_in_the_u_s_or_extradited.html
The full article:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/07/28/walter_palmer_alleged_lion_killer_he_can_be_tried_in_the_u_s_or_extradited.html
There will be quite a bit of pressure from the civilized world and our own citizens to allow this to happen. I guess i feel bad for his family, but clearly Palmer has this coming. Before the explosion of social media this wouldn't have been a story and he might not have even been identified. But now he is shamed on a global scale - pretty incredible.
50 grand to kill a lion?...(hmmm:mj03
...how much would you guys be willing to pay to pay to pepper spray a weasel?(hey,times are hard:shrug
Child molestors are the scum of scum, but I still don think they should be put in cages with lions. Castration, removal of the penis, chemical castration, and the death penalty are all fine with me. I really don't care about them, and I couldn't be a juror on a case where a dad killed a molestor of one of his own children. Maybe I will amend number 3, but again, I wasn't discussing child molestors.
Above, We weren't talking about child molestors; we were talking about a dentist.
Kickserv, you should have been around in Roman times. You would have loved to see those Christians thrown to the lions I'm quite sure.
50 grand to kill a lion?...(hmmm:mj03
how much would you guys be willing to pay to pay to pepper spray a weasel?(hey,times are hard:shrug
I have a neighbor (deceased now) who built on an addition to his house to display all of his mounts. He has at least one lion, hippo, crocodile, Giraffe, elephant, zebra, water buffalo, kudu, gemsbok, leopard, multiple plains animals, and every big game species from North America including a full body mount grizzly and musk ox. He told me once he had spent over 5 million dollars on hunts and taxidermy. Anyway, 50K is not too exorbitant a price for guys like him. It actually sounds pretty cheap. Gigantic waste of money, but all taken legally and I'm sure his money helped pay for somebody to live more comfortably.
If they wounded a lion and let it bleed out for 40 hours then skinned it and cut off its head, then fuck yeah I'd love to see it.
If those Christians were innocent of any crime then no I have no desire to see an innocent human die.
Regards,
Nazi
I would shoot a man who harms children in the mouth and feel nothing. They deserve the death penalty.
Damn right:00hour:00hour:00hour
6/5 said he's dead, so maybe a lion did eat him, we can hope so.
- May 5, 2005
- 1,372
- 29
- 48
- 61
They lured him out of the preserve with meat dragged from their truck - ILLEGAL
They removed his tracking collar after killing him - ILLEGAL
Palmer has done enough hunting (and had legal trouble) to damn well know what he was doing was illegal.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/trending/walter-palmer-cecil-the-lion-1.3170768
Read it....
Do you see where it says:
"Two men, a professional hunter and a farm owner, face poaching charges in Zimbabwe in connection to Cecil's death. Killing the lion was illegal, because the farm owner didn't have a hunting permit, according to a joint statement from the Zimbabwe National Parks and Wildlife Authority and the Safari Operators Association.
The hunters used a dead animal tied to their car to lure Cecil out of the national park, according to the Zimbabwe Conservation Task Force."
ALL THIS MAKES IT ILLEGAL !!!!
- May 5, 2005
- 1,372
- 29
- 48
- 61
These are all guide service doings?? Do you really think he paid 50,000 and had to bait his own hunt? Yes they had to remove the tracking collar..what else was there to do?
His illegal hunting in the past is just that in the past.
Hunting is Saving Africa?s Wildlife
by By Cameron Hopkins - Tuesday, May 11, 2010
Hunting is Saving Africa?s Wildlife
5/12/2010
Even the most ardent bunny-huggers can?t deny what hunting does for wildlife. In a headline about the current state of wildlife in Africa, Conde Nast Traveler begrudgingly and sarcastically proclaimed, ?Perhaps the best way to save wildlife in Africa is to kill it.?
It?s true, undeniably so. You could almost hear the Conde Nast editor?s fingernails screech across her keyboard as she was forced to acknowledge that, yes, African wildlife is thriving because of hunting.
The plain fact is that Africa is a developing continent with a largely rural population that must, for lack of an alternative, derive virtually all of its revenue from natural resources. According to the World Bank, 60 percent of the Sub-Saharan African population lives on less than $1 per day.
African governments have increasingly recognized wildlife as a precious natural resource that can be managed through sustained-utilization, which is to say, hunting.
Even more telling, some African countries have tried bans on hunting. There are two examples of this: Kenya and Tanzania. Tanzania closed hunting in 1973 and reopened it in 1978 after poaching reduced its elephant population by over half. Once hunting reopened, the elephant rebounded to a current population around 125,000.
In 1977 Kenya banned hunting and has never reopened it. The costs have been staggering. According to the African Conservation Foundation, 70 percent of Kenya?s wildlife outside national parks has been poached out. Kenya?s elephants fared even worse: between 1979 and 1989, the elephant population fell from 130,000 to 17,000.
Benefits Of Hunting
What does hunting provide? Two things: money and oversight. As we noted, rural Africans are poor and must eke a living from whatever means are most expeditious. Safari companies provide long-term employment to rural Africans. There are the immediate and obvious jobs, such as working in a hunting camp, but there are also anti-poaching teams, bridge and road building crews and game scouts who all derive a livelihood from hunting.
In Zimbabwe, hunting elephants alone generates $15 million a year, according to George Pangeti of the Zimbabwe Parks Department. And continent-wide, approximately $77 million will be generated from the 1,540 quota of hunted elephant set by the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species (CITES) for 2010.
In the 2007 hunting season in South Africa, 16,394 foreign hunters spent $91 million, according to the South African Professional Hunters Association. The association estimates that 70,000 jobs are created by South Africa?s game-ranching industry.
In 2010, district councils in Tanzania will receive $600,000 as their share of hunting license revenues from the 2009 season, according to The Citizen, a newspaper in Dar es Salaam.
The monetary benefit of hunting flows to district councils in Zimbabwe through its much-heralded program called CAMPFIRE (Communal Areas Management Program for Indigenous Resources). Through CAMPFIRE, the actual local villages and communes benefit directly from the revenues generated by hunting licenses and trophy fees.
Also, safari operators have a vested interest in policing their areas to prevent commercial poaching. There are two kinds of poaching in Africa, meat-poaching, which is endemic to the culture and largely benign if kept under control, and then there is the commercial poaching conducted by organized criminal gangs for profit. These gangs focus on ivory and rhino horn, both of which are smuggled primarily to buyers in Asia and the Middle East.
Government agencies simply don?t have the resources to combat commercial poachers, and widespread corruption is simply a fact of life in Africa. In Kenya, Exhibit A in the case for hunting, systematic gangs of ivory poachers were once allegedly run by the president?s daughter!
When a private safari company comes into an area, it doesn?t take long for the operator to learn who the most notorious poachers are in his area. The operator then goes to the poacher?s village and recruits him to work for the safari company. The operator offers the poacher a job for more money than he can earn poaching.
When I was hunting elephant in Tanzania last year, our local guide was a poacher-turned-tracker named Benito. The trophy fee I paid to shoot an elephant went directly to his communal area, plus his village got all the meat. Men like Benito all over Africa have stopped poaching to become productive workers solely because of hunting.
Saved from the Brink
The rhinoceros is perhaps the best example of how hunting has saved a species from possible extinction. In 1895, the white rhino was actually thought to be extinct, but a group of 100 were found in KwaZulu-Natal in South Africa. Thanks to conservation efforts funded primarily from revenues from hunted trophies, today there are nearly 20,000 white rhino in Southern Africa.
The black rhino has recovered with the help of the same polices that saved the white rhino. In the 1960s, there were an estimated 70,000 black rhino in East Africa. By the 1990s, less than 2,500 remained. The Natal Parks Board stepped in and began a breeding program. Namibia did the same. The programs were so successful that by 2004 CITES actually granted five permits to hunt black rhino to each country.
The elephant is another excellent example of the benefits of hunting. CITES was formed in 1973 as African elephants were being hammered by commercial poachers for their ivory. The elephant population in Africa dropped from over 1 million in 1970 to at least 472,269 in 2006, according to the World Conservation Union. Most estimates say the actual elephant population in Africa is around 600,000 today.
In 1989, CITES banned commercial ivory sales yet allowed hunted trophies to be exported. Once the ivory trade was stifled, elephant populations in Tanzania, Zimbabwe, Botswana, Namibia and South Africa bounced back. The countries without growing elephant populations today are in unstable regions, such as the Congo, where poaching is still a problem.
Zimbabwe was down below 30,000 elephants in 1989, but today the population is about 110,000. CITES allows Zimbabwe 500 permits a year, or less than half of 1 percent of its population. Elephants reproduce at a rate of 4 to 5 percent a year. Because of the growth rate, Botswana has more than 130,000 elephants. Experts say its carrying capacity is 60,000. Botswana will be issued a quota of 400 elephant by CITES in 2010.
There are many other examples of how hunters have saved Africa?s wildlife, like the nyala, blesbok, black-faced impala and bontebok antelopes. But the bottom line is that African wildlife must pay its way in the modern world, and hunters provide that vital revenue.
by By Cameron Hopkins - Tuesday, May 11, 2010
Hunting is Saving Africa?s Wildlife
5/12/2010
Even the most ardent bunny-huggers can?t deny what hunting does for wildlife. In a headline about the current state of wildlife in Africa, Conde Nast Traveler begrudgingly and sarcastically proclaimed, ?Perhaps the best way to save wildlife in Africa is to kill it.?
It?s true, undeniably so. You could almost hear the Conde Nast editor?s fingernails screech across her keyboard as she was forced to acknowledge that, yes, African wildlife is thriving because of hunting.
The plain fact is that Africa is a developing continent with a largely rural population that must, for lack of an alternative, derive virtually all of its revenue from natural resources. According to the World Bank, 60 percent of the Sub-Saharan African population lives on less than $1 per day.
African governments have increasingly recognized wildlife as a precious natural resource that can be managed through sustained-utilization, which is to say, hunting.
Even more telling, some African countries have tried bans on hunting. There are two examples of this: Kenya and Tanzania. Tanzania closed hunting in 1973 and reopened it in 1978 after poaching reduced its elephant population by over half. Once hunting reopened, the elephant rebounded to a current population around 125,000.
In 1977 Kenya banned hunting and has never reopened it. The costs have been staggering. According to the African Conservation Foundation, 70 percent of Kenya?s wildlife outside national parks has been poached out. Kenya?s elephants fared even worse: between 1979 and 1989, the elephant population fell from 130,000 to 17,000.
Benefits Of Hunting
What does hunting provide? Two things: money and oversight. As we noted, rural Africans are poor and must eke a living from whatever means are most expeditious. Safari companies provide long-term employment to rural Africans. There are the immediate and obvious jobs, such as working in a hunting camp, but there are also anti-poaching teams, bridge and road building crews and game scouts who all derive a livelihood from hunting.
In Zimbabwe, hunting elephants alone generates $15 million a year, according to George Pangeti of the Zimbabwe Parks Department. And continent-wide, approximately $77 million will be generated from the 1,540 quota of hunted elephant set by the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species (CITES) for 2010.
In the 2007 hunting season in South Africa, 16,394 foreign hunters spent $91 million, according to the South African Professional Hunters Association. The association estimates that 70,000 jobs are created by South Africa?s game-ranching industry.
In 2010, district councils in Tanzania will receive $600,000 as their share of hunting license revenues from the 2009 season, according to The Citizen, a newspaper in Dar es Salaam.
The monetary benefit of hunting flows to district councils in Zimbabwe through its much-heralded program called CAMPFIRE (Communal Areas Management Program for Indigenous Resources). Through CAMPFIRE, the actual local villages and communes benefit directly from the revenues generated by hunting licenses and trophy fees.
Also, safari operators have a vested interest in policing their areas to prevent commercial poaching. There are two kinds of poaching in Africa, meat-poaching, which is endemic to the culture and largely benign if kept under control, and then there is the commercial poaching conducted by organized criminal gangs for profit. These gangs focus on ivory and rhino horn, both of which are smuggled primarily to buyers in Asia and the Middle East.
Government agencies simply don?t have the resources to combat commercial poachers, and widespread corruption is simply a fact of life in Africa. In Kenya, Exhibit A in the case for hunting, systematic gangs of ivory poachers were once allegedly run by the president?s daughter!
When a private safari company comes into an area, it doesn?t take long for the operator to learn who the most notorious poachers are in his area. The operator then goes to the poacher?s village and recruits him to work for the safari company. The operator offers the poacher a job for more money than he can earn poaching.
When I was hunting elephant in Tanzania last year, our local guide was a poacher-turned-tracker named Benito. The trophy fee I paid to shoot an elephant went directly to his communal area, plus his village got all the meat. Men like Benito all over Africa have stopped poaching to become productive workers solely because of hunting.
Saved from the Brink
The rhinoceros is perhaps the best example of how hunting has saved a species from possible extinction. In 1895, the white rhino was actually thought to be extinct, but a group of 100 were found in KwaZulu-Natal in South Africa. Thanks to conservation efforts funded primarily from revenues from hunted trophies, today there are nearly 20,000 white rhino in Southern Africa.
The black rhino has recovered with the help of the same polices that saved the white rhino. In the 1960s, there were an estimated 70,000 black rhino in East Africa. By the 1990s, less than 2,500 remained. The Natal Parks Board stepped in and began a breeding program. Namibia did the same. The programs were so successful that by 2004 CITES actually granted five permits to hunt black rhino to each country.
The elephant is another excellent example of the benefits of hunting. CITES was formed in 1973 as African elephants were being hammered by commercial poachers for their ivory. The elephant population in Africa dropped from over 1 million in 1970 to at least 472,269 in 2006, according to the World Conservation Union. Most estimates say the actual elephant population in Africa is around 600,000 today.
In 1989, CITES banned commercial ivory sales yet allowed hunted trophies to be exported. Once the ivory trade was stifled, elephant populations in Tanzania, Zimbabwe, Botswana, Namibia and South Africa bounced back. The countries without growing elephant populations today are in unstable regions, such as the Congo, where poaching is still a problem.
Zimbabwe was down below 30,000 elephants in 1989, but today the population is about 110,000. CITES allows Zimbabwe 500 permits a year, or less than half of 1 percent of its population. Elephants reproduce at a rate of 4 to 5 percent a year. Because of the growth rate, Botswana has more than 130,000 elephants. Experts say its carrying capacity is 60,000. Botswana will be issued a quota of 400 elephant by CITES in 2010.
There are many other examples of how hunters have saved Africa?s wildlife, like the nyala, blesbok, black-faced impala and bontebok antelopes. But the bottom line is that African wildlife must pay its way in the modern world, and hunters provide that vital revenue.
