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rusty

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Economy is making steady gains despite weak hiring
AP







WASHINGTON ? The economy is starting to fire on almost every cylinder these days but the one that matters most: Job creation.

Factories are busier. Incomes are rising. Autos are selling. The holiday shopping season is shaping up as the best in four years. Stock prices are surging.

And many analysts are raising their forecasts for the economy's growth. Goldman Sachs, for instance, just revised its gloomy prediction of a 2 percent increase in gross domestic product in 2011 to 2.7 percent and forecast 3.6 percent growth for 2012.

"The upward momentum has more traction this time," says James O'Sullivan, chief economist at MF Global.

If only every major pillar of the economy were faring so well.

Despite weeks of brighter economic news, employers still aren't hiring freely. The economy added a net total of just 39,000 jobs in November, the government said Friday.

That's far too few even to stabilize the unemployment rate, which rose from 9.6 percent in October to 9.8 percent last month. Unemployment is widely expected to stay above 9 percent through next year, in part because of the still-depressed real estate industry.

Job creation ultimately drives the economy, and it remains the most significant weak link.

The meager job gains for November confounded economists. They'd expected net job growth to reach 145,000 and for the unemployment rate to stay at 9.6 percent.

Some economists dismissed the November data as a technical fluke, a result of the government's difficulty in adjusting the figures for seasonal factors. They think the number will be revised up later.

Others saw the jobs report as a reminder that the economy is still struggling to emerge from an epic financial crisis that choked off credit, stifled spending and escalated a "normal" recession into the worst in 70 years. The depth of the financial crisis means the recovery will proceed more slowly than many had hoped or expected, they say.

"The fits and starts are not surprising," says Jack Kleinhenz, chief economist at the National Retail Federation. "We've had a unique recession and therefore a unique recovery."

In the view of most economists, the direction of the overall economy remains positive ? even if its pace feels agonizingly slow. The latest unemployment report was a setback, but likely a temporary one, they say.

"Which are you going to believe," O'Sullivan asks, "one month of payrolls or all the other data?"

Among the encouraging signs:

__ Consumers, whose spending fuels about 70 percent of the economy, are regaining confidence. The Conference Board's index of consumer confidence rose in November to the highest level since June as consumers expressed more optimism about business conditions and jobs. Consumers are suffering "austerity fatigue," says Scott Minerd of Guggenheim Partners. They're ready to replace old clothes, old appliances, old cars.

? Family finances have improved. Personal income surged 0.5 percent in October. That put cash in shoppers' wallets for the holiday shopping season. Households cut their debts to 122 percent of annual disposable income in the April-June quarter, according to Haver Analytics. That was the lowest debt level since the end of 2004.

__The holiday shopping season got off to a buoyant start. The National Retail Federation expects holiday retail sales to rise 2.3 percent this year, the best performance since 2006. One reason: Stock prices have surged. A 14 percent rally in the Dow Jones industrial average since late August has made households feel wealthier, Kleinhenz says.

__ Credit is starting to flow again. Banks have eased credit standards since July, making it easier for businesses to borrow, the Federal Reserve reports. Lending to businesses rose from July through September for the first quarterly increase in two years, according to the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp.

__ Businesses are reporting solid profits and stockpiling cash. Corporate earnings rose nearly 28 percent in the third quarter from a year earlier, the government says. And companies amassed a record $1.84 trillion in cash as of June 30, according to the Federal Reserve. That was 18 percent more than a year earlier. Eventually, companies will use some of that money to hire and expand, which should help stimulate the economy.

That would help the economy maintain its recent momentum. The economy had begun flashing signs of strength late last year, only to falter in the spring and summer this year. The latest evidence could signal a resurgent economy that's gaining traction.

Even as unemployment remains at a crisis level, some encouraging signs about hiring have emerged: The private sector has added jobs for 11 straight months. The overall number each month hasn't looked so good because of job cuts by financially ailing state and local governments.

Small businesses appear to be a particular bright spot. A report by the staffing firm Automatic Data Processing found that businesses with fewer than 500 employees have added 390,000 jobs this year, including 91,000 in November.

"The virtuous cycle of more jobs creating more income creating more spending creating more jobs is still turning," says Jerry Webman, chief economist for Oppenheimer Funds.

Not quite fast enough, though. Unemployment could soon rise above November's 9.8 percent rate, especially if an improving economy causes more out-of-work people who aren't looking for jobs to start. People out of work aren't counted as unemployed unless they're looking for a job. Typically during a recession, some of the unemployed become discouraged and stop looking.

One industry where they may not find a job for a while is real estate. Since the industry bubble burst three years ago, about 2.8 million real estate-related jobs have vanished. Until those people ? ranging from builders, architects and appraisers to lenders and furniture sellers ? find new work, the unemployment rate isn't likely to dip much below 8 percent, economists say.

Real estate in many areas remains depressed. Home prices are being weighed down by sluggish demand, high foreclosures and a huge overhang of unsold houses. Many would-be buyers fear prices may fall further. Some also can't sell their home to upgrade to a larger one because they've lost equity or they can't find prospective buyers.

The economy isn't likely to get any new help from Washington. Lawmakers in a lame-duck session of Congress appear headed for an agreement on legislation that would combine an extension of tax cuts with a renewal of benefits for the long-term unemployed. But no new stimulus spending is likely.

Benefits for the long-term unemployed expired Nov. 30. Two million unemployed people will lose their benefits by year's end unless Congress acts to extend them. The benefits can last for up to a record 99 weeks: 26 weeks of regular benefits from the states, plus up to 73 weeks of federal aid in states with high unemployment rates.

Some economists also favor a one-year suspension of taxes on workers and employers for Social Security and government health care. Yet prospects for such a proposal are dim.

Even so, O'Sullivan and other economists are convinced that signs the economy is strengthening, however slowly, outweigh the discouraging jobs report the government issued Friday.

"The financial system has been recovering, with the credit crunch thawing," he says. "Businesses have already stepped up investment in equipment and software sharply and employment growth modestly . We believe the pluses will ultimately dominate."

Yet even he thinks unemployment will remain the economy's Achilles' heel: Like many economists, O'Sullivan foresees unemployment of at least 9 percent until well into next year.
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WhatsHisNuts

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The business I'm in follows along with the economy, and we're starting to see steady gains week to week. We make computer cooling systems that cost a small fortune, so when things are going south, the investment in this area slows in favor of repairing older units. When things are going well, the orders for new units start rolling in.

I'm also in the rental property business (small time). When things took a shit in 2007, I had almost no interest in my property. I just relet it out, and I could not believe how many people were interested. I guess it could be a number of factors, but I found it really wild.

I have an account with Fidelity that is my old 401k from my days working at Ford. Since January 1, 2009, I'm up over 30%. I've got more money in it now than ever before, and I haven't contributed since 2006. Either I'm an investing savant, or things are turning around.

It is just one perspective, but that's what I have to share.
 

RAYMOND

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MY CONCRETE BUSINESS IS STILL WAY DOWN
THIS WAS MY WORST SEASON EVER! I DON'T SEE ANY GAIN:facepalm:
 

rusty

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I'm working 2 jobs for an average of a 1 man's salary.Some things look to be turning around.But to say that things are looking up while there are no jobs available makes no sense.

How can consumer confidence be high with no jobs?
Why are we paying more and making less??
 

Duff Miver

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Right behind you
I'm working 2 jobs for an average of a 1 man's salary.

And being paid every penny you're worth.

But of course you aren't working in the right job for you. You should be the President's top economic adviser since you know what the Dept of Labor, The Sec of Treasury, and the Chairman of the Fed don't know.

:142smilie
 

rusty

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And being paid every penny you're worth.

But of course you aren't working in the right job for you. You should be the President's top economic adviser since you know what the Dept of Labor, The Sec of Treasury, and the Chairman of the Fed don't know.

:142smilie

:00x11
 

bleedingpurple

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I'm working 2 jobs for an average of a 1 man's salary.Some things look to be turning around.But to say that things are looking up while there are no jobs available makes no sense.

How can consumer confidence be high with no jobs?
Why are we paying more and making less??

I don't understand why a lot of people are blaming O for this? This shit started a long before him. There are no quick fixes.

We as people have to blame ourselves as well. We helped put the country in this mess by being greedy purchasing large ticket items on credit. Buying too expensive cars and houses and cry when it becomes time to pay the piper. We have to be more financially responsible once we get out of this mess.

Most of the guys I know who were not working are back to work now. Most back at their old jobs. So hopefully we are in the right direction.
 

rusty

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I don't understand why a lot of people are blaming O for this? This shit started a long before him. There are no quick fixes.

We as people have to blame ourselves as well. We helped put the country in this mess by being greedy purchasing large ticket items on credit. Buying too expensive cars and houses and cry when it becomes time to pay the piper. We have to be more financially responsible once we get out of this mess.

Most of the guys I know who were not working are back to work now. Most back at their old jobs. So hopefully we are in the right direction.

Good reading.Way to have a say and keep it clean.I would agree that we def. have to take some blame for the troubles of the last few years.
 

rusty

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Why recession proof jobs are a myth.

Why recession proof jobs are a myth.

Why "Recession-Proof" Jobs Are a Myth


Rick Newman, On Tuesday November 30, 2010, 2:16 pm EST

When President Obama proposed a federal pay freeze recently, there must have been quite a few civil servants who thought, "Whoa! This isn't supposed to happen!"

[See 20 industries where jobs are coming back.]

In private firms, pay freezes have become as common as Post-It notes. But government jobs, you'll recall, are supposed to be "recession-proof" and far less susceptible to the strains of a weak economy. The government has never said that, exactly, but lots of career experts have, and if the compact was never overt it was at least well understood: Government jobs tend to come with lower pay and prestige, but with benefits and job security that make up for it.

No longer. As with so many other things, many of the old assumptions about safe jobs and stable careers have been shattered by the grueling economic transformation we're still in the middle of. Yet the ubiquitous lists of best careers and recession-proof jobs continue to propagate the phony idea that some lines of work are immune to economic stress. Here are some of the careers recommended by outfits like CareerBuilder, Forbes, Time, HR World, and Associated Content, along with the more sobering reality:

Education. Conventional wisdom: Education is indispensable and most teachers get their paychecks from state or local governments, which are less susceptible to recessions than private industry. Plus, most teachers belong to unions, which provide further protection against layoffs and pay cuts.

Reality: State and local governments are facing severe budget pressures and are starting to lay off teachers. Since 2008, for instance, the number of local teaching jobs has fallen by 157,000, according to the Labor Department. Plus, teachers' unions that refuse to accept pay and benefit cuts are increasingly seen as out of step with the rest of America, prompting a backlash in some areas that could lead to school consolidations and other recession-like moves.

[See 12 industries still losing jobs.]

Military. Conventional wisdom: We're still fighting two wars, terrorism is ever-present, and Congress always supports the military.

Reality: The huge federal debt has to be cut somehow, and the military is one of the biggest targets. One prominent proposal calls for freezing military pay, cutting benefits, and outsourcing many military jobs to contractors. As for Congress, it tends to support big weapons programs more than spending on troops. Plus, the Iraq deployment is winding down and a drawdown in Afghanistan is scheduled to begin next summer.

Public safety. Conventional wisdom: Police, firefighter, and federal law enforcement jobs will be the last to be cut.

Reality: Maybe so, but governments have now reached that point. Police and fire departments are now subject to the same pressures as other local government agencies, and cuts in the federal workforce seem inevitable as well, with every agency likely to give up something. Overall, state and local governments have cut 260,000 jobs this year alone, with more cuts likely in 2011 and 2012.

Utilities. Conventional wisdom: Everybody needs to keep the lights on and heat the house, plus most utilities are regulated, which keeps prices stable and helps smooth out ups and downs.

Reality: It's true that everybody needs energy, but Americans have cut back on virtually everything, including gas, electric, and water. Labor Department data shows a net loss of about 4,000 jobs in this industry since 2008, with steeper cuts in traditional power plants and minor gains at nuclear facilities.

[See why every worker needs new skills.]

Energy. Conventional wisdom: Energy is obviously a staple, so demand will stay strong in any economy, providing job security.

Reality: Energy is a volatile commodity subject to steep price swings. Energy demand has held up reasonably well over the last few years, with a net job increase in industries like oil and gas extraction. But anybody from Texas or Oklahoma can tell you that an energy bust can be brutal. And "green energy" remains a wild card that could flourish, taking jobs away from fossil-fuel industries, or peter out, leaving a bunch of shuttered startups where people were once hoping to find stable, high-paying jobs.

Accounting. Conventional wisdom: "Death and taxes are a sure thing," according to one job-advice site, which reasons that tough times ought to force companies and individuals to scour their finances more closely than usual, making more work for accountants.

Reality: There's a glut of unemployed accountants and bookkeepers right now, thanks to severe corporate cutbacks and weak revenue at small businesses. There are about 86,000 fewer accounting jobs now than there were three years ago.

Computers. Conventional wisdom: Companies are increasingly replacing people with processors, with no end in sight to the technology revolution.

Reality: With intense pressure to cut costs at most companies, lower-level IT jobs are being shipped overseas in droves; any job that can be done remotely by a lower-paid worker in India probably will be. The safer jobs involve systems engineering and proprietary software work, which requires a high degree of skill and tireless attention to new technology.

[See how the middle class is shrinking.]

Sales reps. Conventional wisdom: In a downturn, companies are likely to hold onto the sales reps who bring in desperately needed new business, while cutting support functions and other jobs that don't contribute to the bottom line.

Reality: Companies don't always do what's rational, and besides, sales reps don't add to the bottom line when potential customers hunker down and refuse to spend money. No wonder the economy has lost more than 400,000 sales jobs since 2008.

Federal government. Conventional wisdom: Uncle Sam doesn't have to please shareholders or customers, so it doesn't face the same budget pressures as private companies. Plus, many government jobs have union protection.

Reality: The federal government has been spending far more than it takes in for a decade, with the national debt ballooning and the day of reckoning drawing near. Voters have now made it clear they want a smaller government, and cutbacks in the federal workforce seem inevitable. One harbinger of coming cuts is the U.S. Postal Service, once thought to be recession-proof itself; its labor force has shrunk by 137,000 jobs since 2008.

To be fair to the job-advice sites guiding workers toward precarious fields, many of their recession-proof lists predate the 2007-2009 recession that proved them wrong. And a number of them are derived from a 2008 book that could not have anticipated the ravages of a downturn that destroyed more than 8 million jobs. Still, many of those outdated lists pop up high on a Google search for "recession-proof jobs," and readers don't always check the date when doing research on careers.

[See what could cause the next recession.]

Practically every list of recession-proof careers also includes a variety of medical jobs, from nurses and doctors to technicians and home health aides. That's valid, since the aging of America's population makes it inevitable that more people will need health care. And sure enough, healthcare has gained jobs in practically every sector over the last few years, despite the recession. But even in healthcare there are a lot of variables that could make jobs less appealing down the road. As more people flee declining industries and flock toward the few that are growing, a glut of qualified workers can develop, driving down pay and benefits. Healthcare reform could produce unexpected changes that make some jobs safer than others. And the complexity of healthcare, combined with relentless pressure to lower costs, is already leading doctors and other caregivers to report high levels of stress and low levels of satisfaction.

It might be distressing to think that no job is safe from recession, but in a fast-changing economy where old industries are displaced by new ones faster than ever, focusing on safety and stability may be the wrong way to pursue a rewarding career. There's mounting evidence that adaptable skills, creativity, and lifelong learning are the new determinants of success, with the biggest rewards going to people with multidisciplinary experience who can apply lessons learned in one field to another and accept the idea that they're likely to have two, three, or four careers, not just one. Cathy Farley of consulting firm Accenture says that as companies recover from the recession and start to hire again, they'll build a more agile workforce capable of responding to a wider variety of challenges. "Companies will organize themselves more flexibly," she says. "They'll look for people with the ability to adapt to different types of work."

[See 3 myths about disappearing prosperity.]

Companies built around a fixed set of skills, meanwhile, may not be hiring for a long time. Industries like manufacturing, construction, telecommunications, and even insurance are still losing jobs, more than a year after the recession officially ended, and many of those lost jobs may never return. A lot of workers in those fields, naturally, are trying to break into different lines of work that offer more stability. But the first move ought to be recession-proofing yourself, by building skills that will transcend the inevitable lurches in the economy. That way, you won't be caught flat-footed when the next pay freeze or technological transformation comes along.


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WhatsHisNuts

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I'm working 2 jobs for an average of a 1 man's salary.Some things look to be turning around.But to say that things are looking up while there are no jobs available makes no sense.

How can consumer confidence be high with no jobs?
Why are we paying more and making less??


What credentials do you have? Are you good at what you do or are you great?
 

hedgehog

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2010 was one of the best years the company I work for has ever had:shrug: my investments have gone up at least 20% to 25% this year
 

rusty

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What credentials do you have? Are you good at what you do or are you great?

Does it matter.Really .I'm a homeowner,I'm partially paying for my daughters education with one more on deck.

I pay my taxes just like everybody else.I may not be the best educated and I'm called out on it on this forum periodically.But guess what I give myself a pat on the back because I'm a survivor.I'm in the game.

Like most Americans I have minimal savings and are being robbed by the gov't.How bout yourself.?
 

hedgehog

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Does it matter.Really .I'm a homeowner,I'm partially paying for my daughters education with one more on deck.

I pay my taxes just like everybody else.I may not be the best educated and I'm called out on it on this forum periodically.But guess what I give myself a pat on the back because I'm a survivor.I'm in the game.

Like most Americans I have minimal savings and are being robbed by the gov't.How bout yourself.?

I respect you Rusty for being honest, best of luck
 

Trench

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Does it matter.Really .I'm a homeowner,I'm partially paying for my daughters education with one more on deck.

I pay my taxes just like everybody else.I may not be the best educated and I'm called out on it on this forum periodically.But guess what I give myself a pat on the back because I'm a survivor.I'm in the game.
You're OK Rusty... :toast:
 

RAYMOND

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you know how it goes rusty, went things are going good you a million of friends, went thing goes bad your friends run for the hills , just like so many around here:sadwave: rusty you alway have a friends in philly !:0074
 

Cie

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you know how it goes rusty, went things are going good you a million of friends, went thing goes bad your friends run for the hills , just like so many around here:sadwave: rusty you alway have a friends in philly !:0074

We reap what we sow, Raymond.


GL going forward, Rusty. You seem like a quality person.
 

rusty

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Thanks guys,I bet I speak foe alot of Americans.Some of the problems are self inflicted ,some are the problems of our country and our government.
 

WhatsHisNuts

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Does it matter.Really .I'm a homeowner,I'm partially paying for my daughters education with one more on deck.

I pay my taxes just like everybody else.I may not be the best educated and I'm called out on it on this forum periodically.But guess what I give myself a pat on the back because I'm a survivor.I'm in the game.

Like most Americans I have minimal savings and are being robbed by the gov't.How bout yourself.?

Yes, it does matter. I'm not a real big entitlement guy. I am not the smartest kitten in the litter, but I made time to better myself while working a full time job to help make myself more marketable.

Everyone says they bust their ass at work, and I just don't fucking see it. I listen to guys like Hedgehog talk about being left alone at work and how it should be okay to be on the internet at work. I don't get it. Work is work. Being great is hard work.

This country is fucked because people seem to think they deserve a job. You don't deserve shit. Go out and get it.....or maybe you can sit at home and pray for someone to help you out.
 

Woodson

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Yes, it does matter. I'm not a real big entitlement guy. I am not the smartest kitten in the litter, but I made time to better myself while working a full time job to help make myself more marketable.

Everyone says they bust their ass at work, and I just don't fucking see it. I listen to guys like Hedgehog talk about being left alone at work and how it should be okay to be on the internet at work. I don't get it. Work is work. Being great is hard work.

This country is fucked because people seem to think they deserve a job. You don't deserve shit. Go out and get it.....or maybe you can sit at home and pray for someone to help you out.

While I agree, I also respect Rusty's honest perspective.

I don't think Rusty is asking for something he doesn't deserve, but like many other Americans, sacrifices are made so that his children are able to have a fair shot at what you're alluding to. Thats what I read form Rusty's statement. And it's honorable. Hat off to you Sir. :0008

I couldn't imagine a lot of the hardships that are out there and as I age, I grow quiet with embarassment to think I've had a bad shake at anything and verbally have said so countless times.

I have a lot to learn and thankful it's a lesson I'm learning before I'm in the gutter asking why am I here. But that's just me.

Interesting thread.
 
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