Ivey wins $12 Million by noticing flawed cards
- Thread starter hedman
- Start date
Yyz, do you think phil should get paid?
All your posts are about the advantage phil gained.
None of them show him doing anything illegal or against the rules
Honest question and just curious.
All your posts are about the advantage phil gained.
None of them show him doing anything illegal or against the rules
Honest question and just curious.
I've already stated he should be paid. I just don't think anyone should act like they are shocked that the casino is a little more than upset with him and the Dragon Lady in question.
I agree he should get paid, but find his actions lacking character. He technically was within his right, but did he do the right thing.
Just like I think the Boys should have returned the money he was incorrectly paid, but was within his right to keep. I dont look at a casino any different then any other business and there is no way I would keep extra money that I was given by mistake or take an angle on a business by returning a 5 year old tv or my old neighbor if he had something break would go buy a new one and put the broken one or old one in the box and return it, like a Dyson Vacuum, I guess its on the store to catch this.
I am far from perfect and not a very religious person, but I believe strongly in KARMA.
Also, I live by the motto my Grandpa always told me, if its questionable or you have to use some GRAY area, its probably morally wrong although it may not be LEGALLY or technically wrong. Made my 10 years as an attorney an interesting ride, cause that was all about skating the gray area HARD.
I started this thread to garner what people thought and find most think he did nothing wrong.
So my question is what is different between this and the Boys keeping the money? Both took advantage of an error by the casino. Thoughts?
Thanks in advance Im now going to go pet my Lama and light my incense, become one with my whisky.
Just like I think the Boys should have returned the money he was incorrectly paid, but was within his right to keep. I dont look at a casino any different then any other business and there is no way I would keep extra money that I was given by mistake or take an angle on a business by returning a 5 year old tv or my old neighbor if he had something break would go buy a new one and put the broken one or old one in the box and return it, like a Dyson Vacuum, I guess its on the store to catch this.
I am far from perfect and not a very religious person, but I believe strongly in KARMA.
Also, I live by the motto my Grandpa always told me, if its questionable or you have to use some GRAY area, its probably morally wrong although it may not be LEGALLY or technically wrong. Made my 10 years as an attorney an interesting ride, cause that was all about skating the gray area HARD.
I started this thread to garner what people thought and find most think he did nothing wrong.
So my question is what is different between this and the Boys keeping the money? Both took advantage of an error by the casino. Thoughts?
Thanks in advance Im now going to go pet my Lama and light my incense, become one with my whisky.
Ok, so an analysis has been made on this an the edge the player gets is 6.765%. If you want to understand it, here is a great read:
Edge sorting
It was written by Dr. Eliot Jacobson, who holds a Ph.D. in mathematics. Dr. Jacobson is widely recognized as one of the world's top experts on casino table games and casino game mathematics.
It can be implied from the article he thinks is the responsibility of the casino to protect from this "vulnerability".
Edge sorting
It was written by Dr. Eliot Jacobson, who holds a Ph.D. in mathematics. Dr. Jacobson is widely recognized as one of the world's top experts on casino table games and casino game mathematics.
It can be implied from the article he thinks is the responsibility of the casino to protect from this "vulnerability".
and from the accounts that I have read this casino did NONE of these things to "protect" them from this happening ...
I still say they LOST from their own negligence ... yes Ivey shot the angles all mentioned in the articles ... but bottom line is who is at fault and LOST :shrug:
I still say they LOST from their own negligence ... yes Ivey shot the angles all mentioned in the articles ... but bottom line is who is at fault and LOST :shrug:
Great read. A lot like card counting, casinos hate it and need to take precautions to stop it. Here, they did not. Changes my opinion. Ivey didn play an angle, he played the game better and took advantage of his ability to edge sort.
I have said from the get go that he did not CHEAT ... he saw an ANGLE and exploited it... NOT his fault that this was available to him but was total fault to the casino and they are denying his winnings ... they should pay him and maybe even bar him from playing there again like they do card counters ... even Trump who owns so many casinos suggested to Marilu Henner the other night with her memory she should consider card counting
hedman as an attorney ... do you see anything "illegal" here :shrug:
hedman as an attorney ... do you see anything "illegal" here :shrug:
Nope. Not even close to illegal. Always simply an ethical or moral question. That article was really fucking good. I wish I had an opportunity to read that before I said he was cheating.
Didn't you already say you felt the "cheating" was more along the moral lines? That's the way I always felt, myself. That won't change.
People are applauding him for being smart enough to spot the casino's weakness, but to me, it's not much different than standing back and waiting for people to drop their wallets. You didn't have anything to do with them losing it, so it's ok to keep it? Not for me. You're still a thief.
Plus, he didn't "stumble" onto this money tree. That Asian gal, in some fashion, made him a part of this play.
I don't even believe any of this story at all.
Imagine a casino losing that much to Phil Ivey none the less and not do something about it before losing 12 million.
It's a bullshit advertising stunt and they probably paid Phil a few hundred G's to play along.
I haven't read anything about this outside this thread so if I'm obviously wrong, I don't care. I still don't believe a casino let this happen, there must be something else they haven't said about it.
All BULLSHIT.
Imagine a casino losing that much to Phil Ivey none the less and not do something about it before losing 12 million.
It's a bullshit advertising stunt and they probably paid Phil a few hundred G's to play along.
I haven't read anything about this outside this thread so if I'm obviously wrong, I don't care. I still don't believe a casino let this happen, there must be something else they haven't said about it.
All BULLSHIT.
I don't even believe any of this story at all.
Imagine a casino losing that much to Phil Ivey none the less and not do something about it before losing 12 million.
It's a bullshit advertising stunt and they probably paid Phil a few hundred G's to play along.
I haven't read anything about this outside this thread so if I'm obviously wrong, I don't care. I still don't believe a casino let this happen, there must be something else they haven't said about it.
All BULLSHIT.
:facepalm:
