Lost all respect for Warren Sapp..

[Skinar]

An other post from the sissy

An other post from the sissy

By the way, for you guys who still think that Sherman is way out of line, Howie Long, Terry Bradshaw and Jimmy Johnson thought he showed character and courage. I guess they're sissies too, I wonder why they put such panty waists on TV for 'real men' to have to suffer with each Sunday.

Hey, I just saw an interview with Sapp after the Sunday night game with that Suzie Culver (I would say I think she's kinda cute, but being a sissy I'm not supposed to notice things like that). Anyways, Sapp says that HE'S the guy who has been violated here, that Sherman violated HIS space. Sapp didn't seem to have much to say about Clifton, didn't seem to really care one way or another if the guy lives or dies, he's mostly concerned about HIS space being violated. Poor, poor Warren. He's the real victim here and anyone who can't see that has some type of problem.

I tell you what I see now. First of all, I don't believe for a second that Sapp would have leveled that guy if Clifton had been black. I don't believe for a second that Sapp would be so upset if Sherman were black. I think that this is a racial incident and everybody is tippy toeing around it. Just imagine if the races were reversed. Let's say that Romo cold-cocked some black lineman and put him in the hospital, and that Dungy or Edwards got in Romo's face about it and Romo went bug eyed crazy and then began to complain about himself being the victim. Do you suppose that the league would intervene on the basis of racial bias? I do. This will NEVER come up on TV because everyone is scared to death of the issue - and there will be plenty of people right here at MJs who will skewer me for bringing this up as well. It's just simply a taboo subject any longer but I see it all the time, and this incident with Sapp is nothing more than the latest in a long string of incidents.

This post will probably be deleted. I may even get the boot for bringing this up - but somebody needed to say it and I don't mind taking the hit in order to be on the right side of this thing.

A lot of you guys were thinking the same thing, but it's best to keep your mouth shut, you can lose a lot by exercising your 'right to free speech' in this country. That's another joke. The First Amendment is slowly being ripped to shreds and the Second Amendment won't be too far behind. The recent Homeland Security Act pretty well took care of the Fourth as well as parts of most of the others - I hope you enjoy having Big Brother over for dinner every night.

Good Lord is right!! My perspective on things tends to be quite broad, sports does NOT command my every thought although I find the metaphor is useful when used as a lens with which to view society. How much longer until we have gladiators fight to the death? The UFC isn't that far away that spectacle actually, and by the way, most of the gladiators volunteered for the arena once they had a taste of the action.

Hope everyone has a wonderful week. I'll try to keep it positive, but I would prefer to keep it truthful.

 

[Brenda-BucsFan]

Ok, let me see if I have this correct.

Now it has not only gone from Warren Sapp making a hit on a guy on a play that was seen as legal by the league.

To Sapp looking on that play for a white guy to hit ,He searched all over the field on that particular play looking for one white guy..

And now he is a threat to the First and Second Ammendments??

Skinar , please whatever you are smoking I need to get some of that.
:weed: :weed:

 

[BobbyBlueChip]

To back up Skinar's point, Sapp does seem to have more sacks against white quarterbacks than he does black ones.

I honestly didn't think that race had anything to do with the hit, but I can now see how someone from Kentucky would have a problem with a black man getting into the face of a white man. The colored folk just don't know their place anymore. And with all the money that they make, they really should be more thankful.

You come in here with the tone of an enlightened intellectual and then base your claim on such a "taboo" topic. It's a topic that's been around for 200 years and your theory was the first thing out of everyone's mouth on every factory floor last Monday morning.

The dirtiest hit that I've seen this year was Romanowski's hit to injure Sharpe on Monday Night (you know Sharpe, he's another black that doesn't know his place) and I didn't hear a peep out of anybody. But I guess "truth" is where you find it.

 

[TheShrimp]

You heard it out of me, BBC (check out my thread "The Sharpe Incident"). I thought that was a blatant attempt to injure Sharpe who we know Romo doesn't like. He locked Sharpe's arm against his body and dropped his weight on it.

I didn't ever consider a racial angle with Sapp. I don't think it's a valid point. I've never gotten that impression from Sapp. Still didn't like the hit though.

 

[Lefty Guns]

My 2 Cents

My 2 Cents

My take is I have no problems with the hit, perhaps a little excessive but not out of line. My issue is the way Sapp was mouthing off to Sherman at the end of the game. Where is the respect for coaches in today's game. How could Sapp not get a fine from the league for mouthing off to a coach that way??

When I was in my playing days back in high school, if I would have ever said anything like that to a coach. I would have been kicked off my team no questions asked.

 

[Topdog]

Lefty Guns

Lefty Guns

Exactly right about Sapps words to the coach and on TV with audio. The world is changing in a bad direction. Even though most people concerned, knew that O J Simpson killed his ex-wife, the silence all but condoned it. When people start getting away with murder, murder will become more commonplace. At least we have a great group here at Madjacks, that are willing and able to voice an opinion on a tough subject. I'll avoid making this a race or gender issue, since I believe it falls under the wrong place at the wrong time heading.
It will not serve this topic to bring in the what ifs and different people secenarios.
It's hard to not be emotional about this subject and I thank all those that have overlooked my strong opinions and for not making this personal in our family here at Jacks.

Keep it Positive, Topdog

 

[zig]

You are exactly right lefty guns. The respect thing is what bothers me. Where is the respect for a coach or an elder. If Sapp thought Sherman was attacking him he could have defended himself with a little more class. I also think Romo is the biggest jerk in the game.

 

[PacMan]

Quoting Sapp from his radio show:
?YOU KNOW I don?t want the man in the hospital or anything like that. This was the second play in my career that I wish the man would have got up and walked off the field under his own power. I would have loved for the guy to have gotten up and walked off the field.?

"I didn?t know he had numbness and all this going on in his life. I never gloated. When I hit this man, I knew I had delivered the shot. But I didn?t know to that extent. I don?t want that. I wanted him to feel it cause that?s why I delivered the shot. But it?s not about malice.?

I probably didn't see as many replays of the event as the average person, so perhaps I'm not the best person to comment. But, from what I did see, and from what I've read (and am reading now), Sherman confronted Sapp after the game. He went out of his way to say something to Warren. I feel that he had no business doing this. Maybe some former players condoned that confrontation, but the game announcers themselves sure didn't. I agree with them. So did Jon Gruden, publicly.

What I was more upset with was the comments made by Larry Beightol, the Packer offensive line coach. "We didn't cut him because we didn't want to ruin their season. If we play them again, he's fair game. Somewhere we'll see him."

Then he states "Everyone is fair game. When we see him again, we'll see how that dog fares. We'll cut him every single time. I want him to know that."

This sounds to me like here is a coach CONDONING dirty cheap shots. Aren't they complaining that what Sapp did was a dirty cheap shot? What right do they have to complain when they turn around and say they're going to not only do it back, but on every single play? It is a classic case of hypocracy.

The article is at http://buccaneers.theinsiders.com/2/78495.html as well as many other places in case you haven't heard or read it.

While cut blocks might be legal, players have been fined for them, NFL Players Association Executive Director Gene Upshaw has publicly lobbied for them to be illegal, as have many other people involved with the game.

By the way, I did mouth off to opposing coaches twice in school. Both times they deserved it, and I'd repeat it again given the chance. Both times my coach heard it, and once was in front of my parents as well. My one coach said nothing, while the other one expressed himself as a little upset. Granted I didn't use profanity, but it happens. Coaches need to rise above the chit that happens on the playing field and act as professionals. Sherman didn't do that. Plain and simple.

I've been the subject of a cheap shot too. I luckily was able to peel myself up off of the field and get on with it. I sympathise with the Packers and Clifton and his family. But to rip Sapp like this and label him a racist seems like a bit (ok, a lot) too much to me.

Basically, Sapp wasn't the first player to do this, and won't be the last. He's stated he wasn't celebrating the injury, and that he did not intend to hurt the guy. Safeties pound the chit out of WRs when they have to jump to try to catch a ball up the middle, and nobody says chit. People hit QBs from their blind side, and don't let up, and as long as the hit isn't late, again, nobody says jack. I fail to see what the big deal was here, and think somebody needs to point this out. So here I am.

My four cents.

 

[PacMan]

Re: Another post from the sissy

Re: Another post from the sissy

I tell you what I see now. First of all, I don't believe for a second that Sapp would have leveled that guy if Clifton had been black. I don't believe for a second that Sapp would be so upset if Sherman were black. I think that this is a racial incident and everybody is tippy toeing around it.

So if Clifton was black, would anyone here be bitching about the hit?

Racism only causes problems, it doesn't solve any. Calling someone a racist without claims to back it up can certainly be construed as a racist act. Perhaps you have some evidence?

Sorry I didn't tippy toe around it, but it sounded like you prefer it that way.

 

[FRANK RIZZO]

When you are in high school you are a pipsqueek and had better pay respect to your elders. Both the coach and sapp are grown men and there is no such Hierarchy at that level unless you are on that particulars coaches PAYROLL!!!

 

[Skinar]

Ok, let me see if I have this correct.

Now it has not only gone from Warren Sapp making a hit on a guy on a play that was seen as legal by the league.

To Sapp looking on that play for a white guy to hit ,He searched all over the field on that particular play looking for one white guy..

And now he is a threat to the First and Second Ammendments??

Skinar , please whatever you are smoking I need to get some of that.
:weed: :weed:

First of all, I didn' say Sapp went looking all over the field for a white guy to hit. My point is that if Clifton had been a black player that Sapp would not have hit him as hard. It's a subtle difference which I don't expect you to be able to grasp.

Sapp is not a threat to the First Amendment, but people like yourself who like to twist words about to suit your particular agenda are.

I don't smoke weed. You need to contact Warren Sapp for that, I hear he has quite a stash.

 

[PacMan]

When you are in high school you are a pipsqueek and had better pay respect to your elders. Both the coach and sapp are grown men and there is no such Hierarchy at that level unless you are on that particulars coaches PAYROLL!!!

When your basketball team is down to three players on the court due to injuries and players fouled out, and are losing by over 50 points, and the opposing coach continues to let his team throw baseball passes downcourt for easy layups to keep running up the score, you call him out. Plain and simple.

When your basketball team is at an opposing team's court in a playoff game, and the opposing team's fans have DOZENS of (50+) bullhorns, and are yelling jeers in them at your team, and yelling in them during free throw attempts, and the coach allows this to happen, you call him out. Plain and simple.

If my elders don't respect me, fawk them. I didn't start the disrespect. Why should I set a different example when my elders already set one?

 

[PacMan]

I forgot to mention, the 50+ bullhorns were in a gym that seated maybe 300. I went to a small school. It was obscene. And now that I think about it, I yelled at their school principal, not their coach. Oh well, same difference.

 

[Skinar]

To back up Skinar's point, Sapp does seem to have more sacks against white quarterbacks than he does black ones.

What does that indicate? More incentive perhaps?

I honestly didn't think that race had anything to do with the hit, but I can now see how someone from Kentucky would have a problem with a black man getting into the face of a white man. The colored folk just don't know their place anymore. And with all the money that they make, they really should be more thankful.

I was just waiting for someone to make an idiotic remark that like. I suppose everyone from Kentucky is a racist - correct? When you can't address the question then just call the questioner a racist. Yours is a simplistic approach to a complex question. Sorry that you're incapable of seeing the nuance.

You come in here with the tone of an enlightened intellectual and then base your claim on such a "taboo" topic. It's a topic that's been around for 200 years and your theory was the first thing out of everyone's mouth on every factory floor last Monday morning.[/QUOTEWhich just goes to prove that there is still a lot of truth on the factory floor.

The dirtiest hit that I've seen this year was Romanowski's hit to injure Sharpe on Monday Night (you know Sharpe, he's another black that doesn't know his place) and I didn't hear a peep out of anybody. But I guess "truth" is where you find it.

Was Sharpe in the hospital? Was Romo fined? I didn't see the hit so I really don't know about that particular instance, but I will say that Romo is, in my opinion, the dirtiest player in the NFL.

Nah, the 'taboo' part is that I questioned whether or not a black player has racial animous against whites. And as a result you have completely ignored the question and simply attacked me personally by implying that I think that blacks should be 'kept in their place'. And THAT is why I made the statement about the First Amendment because most whites already know that they're not allowed to make the comments that I made without being villified at every opportunity. You made that point most elegantly yourself. Thanks.

 

[Skinar]

Re: Re: Another post from the sissy

Re: Re: Another post from the sissy

So if Clifton was black, would anyone here be bitching about the hit?

Racism only causes problems, it doesn't solve any. Calling someone a racist without claims to back it up can certainly be construed as a racist act. Perhaps you have some evidence?

Sorry I didn't tippy toe around it, but it sounded like you prefer it that way.

If Clifton was black I would still be bitching about the hit, but the racial angle would certainly be a moot point. And yes, calling someone a racist without some evidence has repercussions, glad that you pointed that out. You see, it happens a million times every day to white people who don't deserve it at all. Ask Jimmy the Greek. And I didn't call Sapp a racist either, I said that I think he has a problem with white people and that he would have acted differently if Clifton or Sherman were black. I'm glad you didn't tippy toe around, that's part of the point as well. You're trying to imply that I'm a racist because I presented the question - and once again that brings me back to my diatribe about First Amendment rights. The current thinking is that white people are NOT allowed to ask questions like the one I posed and IF they do present such questions then they are automatically labeled RACISTS. But there is a double standard present because black people can label whites racist all day and all night and no one ever questions their judgement. But let me be concise - I'm not saying Sapp is a racist, I'm saying that he would have acted differently if Clifton and Sherman were black. Therefore it's not my job to present evidence to the effect that he's a racist. And other than my statements and the state that I live in, what proof would you offer to support your contention that I'm a racist?

There are a LOT of lurkers out there who agree with me. I know that you're there. I'm NOT going to let people twist my words around, I was very specific in what I said. For the undecideds, watch for more ad hominem attacks on my heritage or my state - it's generally the next step in the process. I wonder what new names people will come up with to call me. So far it's 'sissy' and 'racist'. It should be interesting.

 

[Skinar]

When your basketball team is down to three players on the court due to injuries and players fouled out, and are losing by over 50 points, and the opposing coach continues to let his team throw baseball passes downcourt for easy layups to keep running up the score, you call him out. Plain and simple.

When your basketball team is at an opposing team's court in a playoff game, and the opposing team's fans have DOZENS of (50+) bullhorns, and are yelling jeers in them at your team, and yelling in them during free throw attempts, and the coach allows this to happen, you call him out. Plain and simple.

If my elders don't respect me, fawk them. I didn't start the disrespect. Why should I set a different example when my elders already set one?

That's a good point Pacman. I think in both of your scenarios that I would call out the coach as well, it's obvious to me that in both of those situations the opposing coach knew nothing about sportsmanship and deserved no respect. Coaches like that have no place in sports in my opinion. Perhaps you can get the chance to coach (or already do) and set the proper example.

 

[PacMan]

And yes, calling someone a racist without some evidence has repercussions, glad that you pointed that out. You see, it happens a million times every day to white people who don't deserve it at all.

That I will not argue with (well, except the likely exaggeration that it happens a million times a day, but maybe it does in very little ways). However, that doesn't mean we should also be quick to (incorrectly) judge others. Again, problems not solved, perhaps created.

The current thinking is that white people are NOT allowed to ask questions like the one I posed and IF they do present such questions then they are automatically labeled RACISTS.

I wish this wasn't true, but the perceptions are certainly there. However, in reading your post, I don't see a question in a particular controversial statement that I read. I see "First of all, I don't believe for a second that Sapp would have leveled that guy if Clifton had been black. I don't believe for a second that Sapp would be so upset if Sherman were black. I think that this is a racial incident and everybody is tippy toeing around it."

At least you stated these as your beliefs instead of facts, but since it wasn't phrased as a question, it comes off as racist (at least it did at first to me). It certainly is a very taboo topic, and usually tippy toeing around it or avoiding it entirely is the best way to go, unless you think very carefully about the words that you use. Lest, someone accuse you of being racist (as you pointed out).

You're trying to imply that I'm a racist because I presented the question

See above paragraph regarding your "question".

It's tough for most people to judge a person's intentions within written word. You don't get to see the expression behind how it was said, and it's tough to reserve judgement until any questions that you have are answered, since such questions can't be answered for minutes, and you don't know how much thought went into them.

There are a LOT of lurkers out there who agree with me. I know that you're there.

I'm sure you are right. I agree with some of the things that you've said. However, I don't agree that Sapp was thinking race conscienciously or otherwise when he leveled Clifton. That's my belief. I could be wrong. However, since I don't know that I am wrong, I'm not going to insinuate otherwise.

I'm afraid that I am blissfully ignorant to how racist Kentucky is or isn't. I have heard many racist things about certain other Southern states, but I don't recall hearing much about Kentucky. As far as I know, we Midwest Yankees mostly associate Kentucky with inbreeding (and bourbon, of course). But that's a prejudice that I do not share. (the inbreeding part)

(edited to fix a formatting problem)

 

[BobbyBlueChip]

Re: Re: Re: Another post from the sissy

Re: Re: Re: Another post from the sissy

But let me be concise - I'm not saying Sapp is a racist, I'm saying that he would have acted differently if Clifton and Sherman were black.

So you're saying that his actions would be different if the opposition's player or coach were a different race, but you still state that you're not saying that he is a rascist. I'm not sure I understand. Must be one of those "nuances" that I can't understand.

I think you're a rascist based on your comments. You don't think that you're a rascist. Obviously this is an unfair argument as you know who you are and I only "know" you by what you write on a message board. And I don't think that everyone in Kentucky is a rascist. It's just fun to see Billy Bob's get all pissy when you imply that they're a redneck just because of the state that they live in while they don't mind painting any minority with the same broad brush. It's you this time that proved my point elegantly.

So far it's 'sissy' and 'racist'. It should be interesting.

I don't think that you're a sissy

 

[gardenweasel]

bobby and skinar

bobby and skinar

skinar....i have to disagree that the sapp hit had any racial considerations..very surprised and sad that you went there.....i also disagree that romanowski considers race when he accomplishes one of his many dirty plays....the guy is probably the dirtiest player since conrad dobler and before that sam huff and i don`t think he cares who he maims...

and i`m surprised at bobby`s remarks branding skinar a racist,and then basically calling him a redneck....bobby,i agree skinar was way off base(just my opinion)...but,it`s o.k. for you to"kiddingly"label everybody in kentucky a certain way?....a little bit of the pot calling the kettle black so to speak?...you lost whatever high ground you had with that remark,and sort of assisted skinar`s argument that it`s only o.k. to speak derogatorily about certain ethnicities or racial stereotypes....


these are just my opinions,and i`m not calling names because i try to respect everyone`s opinion here at madjacks...i think it`s a little sad that things went south in a very interesting and hotly debated topic....i`m out of it and please,this was not a personal shot at either gentleman...i respect you both.....g.l. guys....and please,no "quotes"if you choose to zing me......doesn`t anybody else in here find that condescending and insulting?

 

[Skinar]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Another post from the sissy

Re: Re: Re: Re: Another post from the sissy

So you're saying that his actions would be different if the opposition's player or coach were a different race, but you still state that you're not saying that he is a rascist. I'm not sure I understand. Must be one of those "nuances" that I can't understand.

Must be - because it's not that hard to understand - especially for someone from the great state of Illinois and especially for an urbanite from the great city of Chicago. Let me try again. I think that Sapp would NOT have leveled Clifton so violently if Clifton were black. I think that Sapp would not still be so angry with Sherman if Sherman were black. I think that Sapp harbors resentments towards white people - but that does not make him a racist. That just makes him resentful and possibly prejudiced but I don't really know about that last part.

I think you're a rascist based on your comments.

You're entitled to your opinions regardless of how ignorant they are.

You don't think that you're a rascist. Obviously this is an unfair argument as you know who you are and I only "know" you by what you write on a message board. And I don't think that everyone in Kentucky is a rascist. It's just fun to see Billy Bob's get all pissy when you imply that they're a redneck just because of the state that they live in while they don't mind painting any minority with the same broad brush.

'Billy Bob' is an interesting choice of words from such a high minded individual as yourself. Would it be appropriate for me to refer to black people from Chicago as 'Leroy' or 'Cleotus' or something like that? It's obvious that you hold certain whites in low regard and that you don't mind slandering them when the opportunity presents itself. I never said anything akin to that in any of my statements, it is you who have lowered the tone of the conversation - I suppose we'll be 'talking smack' or something akin to that before the conversation ends.

It's you this time that proved my point elegantly.

Looks to me like you're batting a perfect ZERO. You haven't gotten one single thing correct yet and you continue to race-bait. I haven't painted 'any minority with the same broad brush'. I was very, very specific. I was talking about Warren Sapp, yet you decided to make this personal by disparaging my state, me personally, and all people named Billy Bob (I actually know a few of those guys). And therein lies the difference that I've been pointing out in the latter part of this thread, which has now gone completely off topic.

I don't think that you're a sissy

Well, thank you Massah Blue Chip. I will sho nuff be careful not to step on your most sensitive toes in the future and NEVER say an unkind word about any black person (yeah, right).

This is how it goes folks. This is exactly how it goes.