Sweep of the pen, the President and Democrats, created the largest welfare state..

BobbyBlueChip

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You say they were a necessary, but it's still government ownership (or the ability for ownership) which isn't a conservative value. I have no problem with someone changing their views - you do. And your view isn't conservative whether it's a necessary evil or not.

I've never seen you come out against our deficiits, instead you've talked about them as a $ of GDP, but now that "Gumby"'s (nice!) in office, you come out and say that they own us.

I don't know why you think that income redistribution helps me, but you've harped on it for awhile and short of sending you my 1040, I don't think that I could change your mind, so . . . feel free to stereotype me as well.
 

dawgball

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................................................................

Geez Louise

as Six Five would say. what a tool

8 yrs is a long time to listen to them

but I would rather it be this way than Palin as President.

Politics is argument, never agree on nothing

:shrug:

Not sure about your fascination with me later, but I guess I'll figure it out at some point.

My point (sorry I wasn't clearer) was that, if being sarcastic, I thought Jack's comment was funny. People have been harping here during the last admin about if someone wasn't supporting every move Bush made that meant they were against their country.

Jack's comment about being against the stimilus package being against your country was funny.

I guess that's enough, but I'm not sure.

I'll be awaiting your next derogatory comment.
 

Eddie Haskell

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I haven't read all the posts in this thread so I apologize if I am being repetitive. In essence, the arguments about the economy can be distilled down to a very simple concept, to wit:

Can the US economy be stimulated through tax cuts or government spending?

Personally, I felt the bailouts were a bandage on a gusher and I think neither of the above nor a combination of both will work. Bush's tax cuts (with spending) didn't do it. I don't think Obama's spending with tax law changes will do it either.

The right wing kooks love to call this "wealth redistribution". A bit drastic I think. The real problem with printing money is inflationary. However, I'm not sure what choices he has in an economy that makes nothing. Hear me Terry, makes nothing.

Eddie
 

gardenweasel

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However, I'm not sure what choices he has in an economy that makes nothing. Hear me Terry, makes nothing.

Eddie

and this new "card check"unionization voting scam should help that...right?...undermining the concept of the sanctity of a person`s vote?.....intimidation?...tools of the left and their thugs...

that`ll encourage business to stay in this country...:rolleyes: ...more unionization....

/where`s my "che`" t-shirt?...
 

Eddie Haskell

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You can sit there and nit pik the unions while my red brothers and I are plotting the overthrow of the beaujoisee, capitalist, pig owners, rasputin. We have our centinenial coming up in 2017 ya know.

It's factory owners and the uaw.
It's wall street and main street.
It's tax cuts and government spending.
It's democrats and republicans.
It's christians and muslims.
It's cats and dogs.
It's LeBron and Kobie.

Blame everybody and everything. Scream about the unions and management.

In the meantime................. Rome is burning and I don't mean Jim.

Eddie
 

dawgball

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Eddie - I've never felt more in tune with your posts than those last two.

I'm feeling all warm inside.
 

THE KOD

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Not sure about your fascination with me later, but I guess I'll figure it out at some point.

My point (sorry I wasn't clearer) was that, if being sarcastic, I thought Jack's comment was funny. People have been harping here during the last admin about if someone wasn't supporting every move Bush made that meant they were against their country.

Jack's comment about being against the stimilus package being against your country was funny.

I guess that's enough, but I'm not sure.

I'll be awaiting your next derogatory comment.
.............................................................

It won't be long in coming you rat bastid.

you spelled a bunch of stuff wrong in that short
rant of yours.
 

gardenweasel

el guapo
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Jan 10, 2002
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"the bunker"
You can sit there and nit pik the unions while my red brothers and I are plotting the overthrow of the beaujoisee, capitalist, pig owners, rasputin. We have our centinenial coming up in 2017 ya know.

It's factory owners and the uaw.
It's wall street and main street.
It's tax cuts and government spending.
It's democrats and republicans.
It's christians and muslims.
It's cats and dogs.
It's LeBron and Kobie.

Blame everybody and everything. Scream about the unions and management.

In the meantime................. Rome is burning and I don't mean Jim.

Eddie

one thing that strikes me funny....obama and pelosi needed this stimulus package signed "right away"....couldn`t be soon enough...it was that critical....

1000 pages that nobody got to read because it was that crucial...getting money into the system...NOW!...can`t wait...

i understand pelosi`s rush...she`s going to see the pope...lol

so what does "the one" do?...HE DECIDES TO GO TO CHICAGO FOR A 3 DAY VACATION!...all it takes is a stroke of the pen to get the ball rolling... ...but,now that`s it`s passed,he ain`t signing it till after the weekend!...

yeah...it`ll hold till tuesday...:banghead:

scammed again...:mj07:
 

Terryray

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Politics is argument, never agree on nothing

:shrug:

Your synthetic a priori judgments are not knowledge. How is the book reading coming along?

Eddie Haskell said:
However, I'm not sure what choices he has in an economy that makes nothing. Hear me Terry, makes nothing.

predictable chants of dogma from the faithful


Eddie Haskell said:
You can sit there and nit pik the unions while my red brothers and I are plotting the overthrow of the beaujoisee, capitalist, pig owners, rasputin. We have our centinenial coming up in 2017 ya know.

?The Capitalists will sell us the rope with which we will hang them.?

Vladimir Lenin
 

The Sponge

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off the top, I can think of many distinguished economists who are against a stimulus plan:

Gary Becker, the 1992 Nobel economics laureate

Kevin Murphy, a MacArthur Fellow, is an economics professor at the University of Chicago

Robert Barro at Harvard. Makes some strong remarks here.


Martin Feldstein,Professor of Economics at Harvard University, and the president and CEO of the National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER)---to be fair, he's just against this stimulus package.

John Cochrane of the University of Chicago, his recent piece is being very widely discussed among economists.

Tyler Cowen, the Holbert C. Harris Chair of economics as a professor at George Mason University

Eugene F. Fama, University of Chicago Booth School of Business

Kenneth R. French, Professor of Finance at the Tuck School of Business at Dartmouth College
-- these last 2 fellows posted excellent piece here

and the editorial above by Varok contains some very important lessons from the Great Depression--lessons most folks still have very wrong...read here "How Government Prolonged the Depression"

6a00d834518ccc69e2011278d6e47e28a4-.jpg

Would these be the same guys just about eight months ago who u were trying to sell us on how good the economy was and it was all made up? If they were it solidifies my point. I wouldn't trust ur sources if these guys tongues came notorized. Oreilly and Hannity said the Dems and the NYork imes were making this all up (about the economy being weak) to bash Bush. Do you buy their bullshit also? Have they ever apologized or have u when u gave us the ten page letter on how well the economy was thriving and we were all just big dummies with vivid imaginations? Tell that to all the Americans who have lost half of their life savings.
 

kneifl

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Would these be the same guys just about eight months ago who u were trying to sell us on how good the economy was and it was all made up? If they were it solidifies my point. I wouldn't trust ur sources if these guys tongues came notorized. Oreilly and Hannity said the Dems and the NYork imes were making this all up (about the economy being weak) to bash Bush. Do you buy their bullshit also? Have they ever apologized or have u when u gave us the ten page letter on how well the economy was thriving and we were all just big dummies with vivid imaginations? Tell that to all the Americans who have lost half of their life savings.

Who let the retard out? Your post is a bunch of jibberish and whining. If you want to be that way fine. It's obvious not only to me but to others as well you don't know what you're talking about. Try using some facts and logic in at least some of your posts.

kneifl
 

Terryray

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"facts and logic" from Da Sponge?


Economists (if you ain't noticed it yet Sponge) are like meteorologists--their overall long-term predictions are very poor. Doesn't mean meteorology or economics isn't a science. The knowledge just isn't in the aggregate prediction area (but in other places of prediction, like effects of fiscal stimulus!).

If you wanna study stimulus skepticism by the ONLY person who accurately predicted the 1987 downturn in market, warned of the bubble, AND predicted this downturn, read on here.

"economy....thriving" what I actually wrote last April was "so TO REPEAT, economy ISN'T doing real well now, but doesn't seem real bad--yet, anyway. We'll see."

I had also just noticed that over at intrade, the probability of a recession in 2008 has fallen to 25 percent.

but what tempered my remarks back then for arguing about stronger economy was these remarks March 2008 by Marty Feldman, which is very important as he is Pres. of NBER (as mentioned in my post above):

"The United States is in a recession that could be "substantially more severe" than recent ones, Martin Feldstein said on Friday. "The situation is very bad, the situation is getting worse, and the risks are that it could get very bad."...

Feldstein said the downturn could be the worst in the United States since World War Two."

so Feldman was correct (or more precisely, probably will be when next few month's employment figures bear out the "worst since WWII" remark) along with you and SteveD, djv, and Jabberwocky. I was wrong about thinking US wasn't in recession at the time. But I hedged, as Feldman's pronouncements worried me. So you gonna study and listen to Feldman now? Study the like I provided above.

Becker and Barro were also early worriers, if memory serves. But don't have that stuff at my fingertips and not gonna spend time reading old blogs to confirm...
 

MadJack

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"facts and logic" from Da Sponge?


Economists (if you ain't noticed it yet Sponge) are like meteorologists--their overall long-term predictions are very poor. Doesn't mean meteorology or economics isn't a science. The knowledge just isn't in the aggregate prediction area (but in other places of prediction, like effects of fiscal stimulus!).

If you wanna study stimulus skepticism by the ONLY person who accurately predicted the 1987 downturn in market, warned of the bubble, AND predicted this downturn, read on here.

"economy....thriving" what I actually wrote last April was "so TO REPEAT, economy ISN'T doing real well now, but doesn't seem real bad--yet, anyway. We'll see."

I had also just noticed that over at intrade, the probability of a recession in 2008 has fallen to 25 percent.

but what tempered my remarks back then for arguing about stronger economy was these remarks March 2008 by Marty Feldman, which is very important as he is Pres. of NBER (as mentioned in my post above):

"The United States is in a recession that could be "substantially more severe" than recent ones, Martin Feldstein said on Friday. "The situation is very bad, the situation is getting worse, and the risks are that it could get very bad."...

Feldstein said the downturn could be the worst in the United States since World War Two."

so Feldman was correct (or more precisely, probably will be when next few month's employment figures bear out the "worst since WWII" remark) along with you and SteveD, djv, and Jabberwocky. I was wrong about thinking US wasn't in recession at the time. But I hedged, as Feldman's pronouncements worried me. So you gonna study and listen to Feldman now? Study the like I provided above.

Becker and Barro were also early worriers, if memory serves. But don't have that stuff at my fingertips and not gonna spend time reading old blogs to confirm...
06.jpg
 

Cie

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I'm against the bailouts and against the stimulus package, but I think it is funny how when the Bush crew was talking stimulus it seemed like a great idea, but now that Obama is following through with it, it is going to ruin the country.

It is really embarrassing to watch some of you clowns blindly follow your parties.


I find it difficult to understand why so many toe party lines. Embarassing, maybe. Scary, definitely.
 

Jaxx

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In one sweep of the pen, the President and his fellow Democrats have created the largest redistribution of wealth in American history..

Monday, Presidents Day, Barack Obama will sign the greatest redistribution of wealth from the private sector to the Federal Government..

It is really unfortunate that Barack Obama has reneged on almost every campaign promise and will create a Nanny State/Socialism, that can't even be measured by European standards..

When the slobbering liberal media was foaming at the mouth during the campaign, they made Barack Obama into a figure that has only been matched when Moses came off the mountain..Much of this was based on Obama's great oratorical skills and even I can acknowledge that, he is a gifted speaker and that is it.

We still don't know this man, or who he is..The liberal media did an excellent job not going into his past and question some of his so called judgment...His great win was based simply on his ability to communicate with a message of reforming the way Washington works and the hate mongering of George Bush, with a populous message of change, which attracted a large portion of the electorate, that feels they are entitled and wants the government to intervene in all aspects of their lives.

The liberal Media did the country a disservice by anointing without real investigation..The campaign, as well run as it was, was able to put Obama in a cocoon and only gave us what we wanted to hear and the liberal media obliged..What is really troubling now, is how the liberal media will always skirt around the real truth or any event that may be unpopular or a mistake made with this administration..Unlike, with the Bush administration, the liberal media was all to eager to present lies and falsehoods and even as with the New York Times, should be held to account, on Treason. You will never see this now..

One area that the liberal press hasn't mentioned, is the moving the 2010 censes from the Commerce Department to the White House..Can you imagine if Bush took over the censes and moved it to the White House...Liberals would be in a tizzy...

Americans will never get the real story as long as they continue to allow the liberal media to gave their version of this new administration.

His campaign promise, was ethics..Barack Obama was going to reform in a way as he has mentioned repeatedly, that NOwill be in his administration and he even signed a ethics bill to address this..Within 24 hours, Obama allowed exceptions to his own rule..Then he promised absolute transparency...Even that was broken, when he preached that Americans would have 48 hours to view the stimulus package..

Barack Obama, sold the American people that he has excellent Judgment skills and already in office, less than 60 days, his tenure at best, is a dismal performance so far..He pushed Geithner, to head the Treasury. Telling the country he needs a man with his credentials to fix the Financial crisis, even though this individual cheated on his taxes, for which he tried to blame on not understanding of Turbo Tax..This guy was on capital hill last week to explain his plan on curbing this financial crisis, and was totally inept and unprofessional..That day, Wall Street tanked almost 500 points..Incredible!!

The stimulus package is a good example of his lack of Bipartisanship and Judgment..He allowed Speaker Pelosi and her Democratic friends and their lobbyist to write this bill..This Hog trough is nothing more than a spending bill that includes everything the Democrats have wanted in the last 40 years, from Rat control to the prevention of sexually transmitted deceases..A large portion of this part is attached to prevention, meaning the distribution of Condoms..Can you imagine the price per condom..This bill puts it at $25,000 each..Wow!! That certainly is stimulating to say the least and will not create 6 jobs, or maybe, since condom production will be increased.lol

Barack Obama had to take his stimulus package to the folks last week..His only gift is speech making, not leading as we have seen with his numerous appointments that turned with dismal results. When he took to the road in Town hall settings and allowed the friendly partisan crowd to ask questions, you can't believe the type of questions or demands made by some..I understand there are many that have come to hardtimes, I'm not immune to this, but I picked up my own ass and did something about it..Some of these folks asked when the president would give them a home and another gentleman ask for a job, even implying his current job wasn't to his satisfaction..In the background, there was a person shouting, when will you put gas in my car..This is called entitlement and the road to Socialism.

Monday evening when Barack Obama held a news Conference, he criticized the folks who were against this bill, when he brought up the NEW deal during the depression and reminded us that his plan is in the similar vain..History tells a different story and was sort of misleading on his part..FDR's approach to get out of the depression was a complete failure that resulted in higher taxes of 60% on income up to $25,000 and over this amount, rated at 100%..Corporate taxes went through the roof and compounded the problem and his spending at that time was 2% of GDP..Current spending package is 5% of GDP and my guess before it's all over, will reach 8% or higher..What got us out of the great depression was the start of WW II, when corporate American went into production for the war effort and our boys went off to war and the women flocked to the factories to pickup the cause..This is what got us pass that event, not ridiculous spending that history has shown will only be to the demise of Capitalism and a Socialist agenda.

Japan, in the 90's went into a spending spree like we are doing now and Japan spent the next 10 years plus with high inflation and high unemployment..Their currency, the Yen, floundered in the gutter for years..It seems the liberals can't seem to take into account the history and now appears we are about to repeat it..

No doubt these are tough times and having the liberals roughshod this bill through without constructive dialog, will only pass on to the next generation a HUGE bill..Democrats keep saying, like some of us are totally stupid, that this is temporary spending bill...Have you ever heard such nonsense..This spending and Ear Marks, Pork and other misleading names is here to stay..Don't be fooled, the government never cuts spending, once it is in law, it stays there..We are still funding the Spanish American war through a telephone tax instituted in 1898 and other similar ridiculous out dated issues..

The state of Michigan, once a great Manufacturing base with a solid middle class, stands at a unemployment rate over 10% and Manufacturing has bolted into more friendly environments that are not beholding to the Unions..Michigan is a Union stronghold and a Democratic control body..Their leaders have been complaining that jobs are lost and the exodus of Manufacturing is unfair and more needs to be done..Yes, more needs to be done, but first look at your internals and get rid of your incompetent liberal leaders..Michigan raised corporate taxes and continuous to Cow Town to Union demands..Unions do not create jobs, lets make that perfectly clear..Most Manufacturing like Steel, Textiles and now the Auto Industry were part of the great industrial revolution, that made America strong, was single handily destroyed by the Unions..Thus, they went to more friendly Countries and States that have the "Right to Work Law".

California, with Sacramento as their seat, is totally run by Democrats and Republicans have only a token representation..The state just surpassed Mass. as the highest in income taxes..California, with the Dems in control, can't even budget and currently runs a deficit into the billions, while crying to Washington, to bail them out.They are not friendly to corporations and social engineering is well on it's way at the peril of their citizens..They continue to placate to illegal's and force car makers to stringent gasoline additives of which there are dozens of different blends..They didn't want a Natural Gas refinery which could add billions to the tax base, so the company went just below the border and pipes it in at a much higher rate..These same Leaders, are always bitching about how high energy costs are and can't seem to see beyond their own ignorance.

Just run down the many states that are run by Democrats and yes, some Republican held states, but mostly it's the liberal ideology that allows for this mismanagement and huge deficit and very high taxes that cater to special interest groups, like the environmentalist and it will continue..And you wonder why we are in dire straights..Amazing, isn't it. Democrats have a skewed sense on how to get us out of deficit spending, by spending more and you wonder why the hell you're paying so much in taxes..


The deficit before Obama took office was around 1$ Trillion dollars..Yes he inherited a Trillion, but he is being very disingenuous in blaming Bush and now with his spending bill, added another Trillion..We are now at 2$ Trillion today and more is expected..Before this is all said and done, Obama will have increased the deficit to 9$ Trillion dollars, including interest and other factors in the next two years. Yeah, go ahead and blame Bush for that to..

Well you have two years to see how much your vote has helped with this liberal/Democratic controlling body of the 3 branches of government and I can assure you, you will not like the outcome..I'm not talking about the entitlement class, they have already liken themselves for the next great payoff, without contributing other than their simple minded, give me attitude..

Remember what JFK said at his inauguration, "It's not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country".. It seems liberal ideology has taken the way of the Europeans and totally ignored one of their great leaders. Shameless!!

The Republican's made the right choice by not voting for this spending bill..They stood on principle, something that the Democrats seem to have a difficult time doing or understanding...Democrats have never taken the Moral high ground, it's not in their ideology..

The economy will turn-around, it always does..The is a hiccup in the total scheme of things and the real area that needed to be addressed, is the financial sector and the release or easing of credit, not this land grab and a total reinvention from Capitalism to Socialism..

Watch for hyper-inflation and move into Gold and Precious Metal and Coins..Cash is good, but in the next 12 - 18 months, buy a wheelbarrow to carry your dollar bills when you go shopping for your next loaf of bread.

This is absolutely an abomination and your vote is to your detriment or advantage, depending on where you stood on this issue..

Have a good day
Varok

Nice write up. Obama is a slick talking peice of work. During campain He said no high ranking lobbyists in my administration. Meanwhile, a former lobbyist for the defense contracting firm Raytheon is set to be the No. 2 person at the Pentagon. WTF is up with that. Stimulus?
:scared
 
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