The Men Who Killed Kennedy

[THE KOD]

11:10 A.M. Preparation for Oswald's Transfer to County Jail
"I would like to have a shirt from clothing that was brought to the office to wear over the T-shirt I am wearing. . . . I prefer wearing a black Ivy League-type shirt, which might be a little warmer. I don't want a hat. . . . I will just take one of those sweaters, the black one."

11:15 A.M. Inspector Thomas J. Kelley, U.S. Secret Service, Has Final Conversation with Lee Harvey Oswald
Kelley approached Oswald, out of the hearing of others, except perhaps Captain Fritz's men, and said that as a Secret Service agent, he was anxious to talk with him as soon as he secured counsel, because Oswald was charged with the assassination of the President but had denied it. Oswald said, "I will be glad to discuss this proposition with my attorney, and that after I talk with one, we could either discuss it with him or discuss it with my attorney, if the attorney thinks it is a wise thing to do, but at the present time I have nothing more to say to you."

11:21 A.M. Lee Harvey Oswald Was Fatally Wounded by Jack Ruby

******* It is also said that as Oswald lay dying on the stretcher, repeaded attempts were made to get a deathbed confession from him but he just shook his head. Dr Crenshaw (in "Conspiracy of Silence") notes that Oswald died, not of the gunshot wound, but because his blood gases were hopelessly unbalanced as the most basic first aid (an IV of Ringer's Lactate) had not been administered to him in the ambulance which took him to Parkland Hospital. Dr Crenshaw also claimed that LBJ called him out of the OR to ask him to try to get a deathbed confession from Oswald, who was by then unconscious...
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no IV placed in Oswalds arm in ambulance. This is basic life saving procedure for a gunshot. Who rode in that ambulance ?

LBJ on the phone with the Dr insisting he try to get a confession from Oswald. I believe now that LBJ had too much at stake and this is why he was browbeating a DR that was trying to save a patient. LBJ denied making the call but the switchboard operator confirmed the President had called and she put him through to the OR .

 

[THE KOD]

Remembering a dark day

?Senator Pat Moynihan of New York, who worked for President Kennedy and loved him, once said to me, ?The country?s never gotten over Kennedy?s death.


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When I read this it expressed my feelings exactly.

I am bitter and have not got over this.

Maybe it was because it made me feel too vulnerable as a person. If they could kill our President what was my life worth.
At least thats the way that I felt about it.

This was not supposed to happen in a free democratic country.

KOD

 

[THE KOD]

 

[THE KOD]

 

[THE KOD]

This picture was found in Dallas Police HQ.
Someone needed to connect LHO with the gun.

 

[THE KOD]

 

[selkirk]

Scott Atlanta I used to believe in a conspiracy to kill JFK, I saw the JFK film and thought this one a huge plot.

Oliver Stone said I was (roughly) "why are poeople so upset about the film, it is just my take on the story....do they have anything to hide".

why people were upset is that he twisted facts, left out facts, and made it out that a New Orleans business man killed the president. The man died broke and was emotionally shattered. In the film played by Tommy Lee Jones to be the matersmind. His biggest crime was he went to a party and Oswald was there.

I agree LBJ was not a nice person, he often used people to get his way, that just make him a great politicean not a murderer. One time he phoned a good friend and told him he appointed him to a board, the senator did not want this, in the end LBJ got his way.

just some things to think about Scott;

1. Oswald life could not have been saved, two docters who have not talked for 40 years both surgeons state that, today they say his odds would be 50%.

by the way one docter has questions about the bullet wound; he is not sure; always some questions.

2. Oswald lied often, was a loner, felt superior to everyone around him. killed an police officer, and tried to kill a three star general (it is believed before that famous day) the bullet just missed.

3. he was an above average shot, some conspiracy theories said he could not hit the broad side of a barn.

4. Ruby ran a strip club and had a few links to the mob, he was the worse person to get though for a conspiracy, he could not keep any secrects, would talk in 5 minutes in anyone.

5. Ruby stated that at times Nazis killed JFK, Robert did, CIA, KGB, and about 100 other groups, stories would change depending on the day.

6. Ruby posed as the media and could have killed oswald he had a gun, there is a photo: question why wait, if it is conspiracy the trigger man should be killed the same day, dead men cannot talk.

7. Conpiracy theorists like to point to the dozens of people that have been killed after the assination. most were natural causes and the accidents have been studied to death. also why kill these people after they have testified. makes no sense.

8. many of the stories have been changed. for instance the home Oswald was staying at had a house keeper, she changed her story from the orginal she told police and media on the first two weeks. (JFK film) she was given $25,000 and told the "real " story. you have to question if $25,000 could influence and (thousands more later) your memory.


JBL was not a nice guy but the evidence is flimsy, of coarse he want a confession, who would not want one. He also used people what politcean does not do this at one time.

Scott there are still some questions and some holes in the one shooter theory just keep an open mind. also read Case Closed, people gets good reviews, kills alot of conspiracy theories. good reviews, except from hardcore conspiracy theorists.

just keep an open mind.

thanks
selkirk

 

[TonyTT]

Scott,

Certainly there was a lot more to this assassination than we were led to believe. IF there was a "conspiracy", I doubt very much that LBJ was a mastermind, he was simply an oportunistic politician along for the ride.
Do you believe that Sam Giancanna was instumental in getting Kennedy elected by rigging the outcome in W Va in that tight 1960 election? It had in fact been reported over the years that the mob was responsible for getting Kennedy in office, they felt they'd have "an ear in the white house".
It's no secret now that in that era of our history organized crime was extremely powerful. Each region of the country had its crime bosses.....Chicago's Sam Giancanna, New York's Meyer Lanksy and Frank Costello, Florida's Trafficante....and New Orleans' CARLOS MARCELLO (whose area included Dallas). It's well known too that once the Kennedy's got in office ...they started going after the regional bossses, including MARCELLO himself. WHY, if they indeed helped get him in? Didn't old man Joe Kennedy even have an association with them in his younger years? What in the world were the Kennedy boys trying to pull off?
Was there a connection between Oswald, Ruby, David Ferry, Clay Shaw, Guy Banister, and even Marcello himself? Was there someone within govt with enough power to have influence over the regional organized crime bosses, intell agencies, and powerful federal politicians? I personally think that if you looked a little further into those questions you'd see who the mastermind was behind this assassination.
just my take on it,
TT

 

[IntenseOperator]

I don't know if anyone above has posted this already...

There's a book I've heard of, "Case Closed", by William Posner (spelling)

From what I've heard, it puts Oswald solidly as the shooter. And one by one takes out each conspiracy theory.

As I said, I never read it but thought I would bring it to the forum's attention.

 

[selkirk]

Intense Operator that the book was referring to forgot the author, he has one several award. Presents the facts and dispells many of the myths that have been built over the years. wether you agree with everything in the book it is well written and a good read.

thanks
selkirk

 

[THE KOD]

Kennedy and Franklin Roosevelt rank on top of a list of greatest presidents in a January 2003 Zogby poll.

In March 2002, JFK scores an 83 percent approval rating in a Gallup poll. (Ronald Reagan gets 73 percent and Bill Clinton 51). That number actually is up five points from a poll four years earlier.

Kennedy and Lincoln lead a greatest presidents poll conducted in February 2002 by ABC News.com. Same results in a Gallup poll a decade earlier.

JFK ranks fourth on a list of heroes. Top three honors go to Jesus Christ, Martin Luther King Jr., and Colin Powell, according to the 2001 Harris poll.

 

[THE KOD]

THE VICTIMS
But my sympathy for them all is limited. It extends, instead, to the real victims of this heinous crime of the last century. John F. Kennedy would have celebrated his 70th birthday in 1987, and I wrote to his daughter that year, asking if she would consider, for the first time, speaking about his life. To my surprise, Caroline called me, saying she had seriously considered doing an interview. ?But I can?t?, she apologized. ?I just can?t bring myself to do it yet. Maybe my brother might; why don?t you ask him??
I never did; hearing the pain in Caroline?s voice that day brought home to me in a visceral way that two little children lost their father on Nov. 22, 1963, while the rest of us lost a president with unfulfilled potential, one who touched our hearts and minds in ways that few leaders ever do.
And that?s why I?ll be ?dropping a tear or two? this Saturday

 

[THE KOD]

Jackie refused to change the pink suit the next day and said " I want them to see what they have done to Jack."

 

[THE KOD]

Scientists cast doubt on Kennedy bullet analysis
Multiple shooters possible, study says

By John Solomon

Updated: 2 hours, 17 minutes ago
In a collision of 21st-century science and decades-old conspiracy theories, a research team that includes a former top FBI scientist is challenging the bullet analysis used by the government to conclude that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone in assassinating President John F. Kennedy in 1963.

The "evidence used to rule out a second assassin is fundamentally flawed," concludes a new article in the Annals of Applied Statistics written by former FBI lab metallurgist William A. Tobin and Texas A&M University researchers Cliff Spiegelman and William D. James.

The researchers' re-analysis involved new statistical calculations and a modern chemical analysis of bullets from the same batch Oswald is purported to have used. They reached no conclusion about whether more than one gunman was involved, but urged that authorities conduct a new and complete forensic re-analysis of the five bullet fragments left from the assassination 44 years ago.

"Given the significance and impact of the JFK assassination, it is scientifically desirable for the evidentiary fragments to be re-analyzed," the researchers said.

Tobin was the FBI lab's chief metallurgy expert for more than two decades. He analyzed metal evidence in major cases that included the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing and the 1996 explosion of TWA Flight 800 off Long Island.

After retiring, he attracted national attention by questioning the FBI science used in prosecutions for decades to match bullets to crime suspects through their lead content. The questions he and others raised prompted a National Academy of Sciences review that in 2003 concluded that the FBI's bullet lead analysis was flawed. The FBI agreed and generally ended the use of that type of analysis.

Using new guidelines set forth by the National Academy of Sciences for proper bullet analysis, Tobin and his colleagues at Texas A&M re-analyzed the bullet evidence used by the 1976 House Select Committee on Assassinations, which concluded that only one shooter, Oswald, fired the shots that killed Kennedy in Dallas.

The committee's finding was based in part on the research of now-deceased University of California at Irvine chemist Vincent P. Guinn. He used bullet lead analysis to conclude that the five bullet fragments recovered from the Kennedy assassination scene came from just two bullets, which were traced to the same batch of bullets Oswald owned.

To do their research, Tobin, Spiegelman and James said they bought the same brand and lot of bullets used by Oswald and analyzed their lead using the new standards. The bullets from that batch are still on the market as collectors' items.

They found that the scientific and statistical assumptions Guinn used -- and the government accepted at the time -- to conclude that the fragments came from just two bullets fired from Oswald's gun were wrong.

"This finding means that the bullet fragments from the assassination that match could have come from three or more separate bullets," the researchers said.

"If the assassination fragments are derived from three or more separate bullets, then a second assassin is likely, as the additional bullet would not be attributable to the main suspect, Mr. Oswald
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There is nothing and I mean nothing that pisses me off more than reading this stuff.

And that is because even as a young man I knew the goverment was involved. It was the start of not trusting my own goverment. It would be a lifelong uneasiness of lies and deceit from the people who we should be able to trust the most.
__________________

 

[AR182]

i believe rfk's arrogance played a part (unintentional of course) in his brother's assassination when he was attorney general.

i believe rfk was told not to go after the mob & jimmy hoffa & his arrogance (got it from his father) made him do it anyway.

 

[THE KOD]

i believe rfk's arrogance played a part (unintentional of course) in his brother's assassination when he was attorney general.

i believe rfk was told not to go after the mob & jimmy hoffa & his arrogance (got it from his father) made him do it anyway.

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AR

your probably right, but the bigger question is who told rfk not to ?

 

[Wilson]

It was 5 years before I was born, however, this is a perfect example of how apathy reigns among the American people. The Warren Report is a debacle and should have caused the people of this country to cleanse the Gov't.

Not only did LBJ conspire to kill JFK, he killed thousands of young Americans in that unjust war in south east Asia. I imagine LBJ is burning in hell with Hitler and the gang right about now.:com:

 

[TonyTT]

If you think LBJ played a notorious role in that one, check out the USS LIBERTY incident in June of '67. That one also made my stomach crawl!


On another LBJ note....it was no secret that there was no love lost between LBJ and the Kennedys. I saw a doccu. years ago on A&E that told how J E HOOVER was instrumental in getting his boy LBJ on the Kennedy ticket through blackmail of course. Hoover dug up dirt that JFK had actually had a previous marriage at a young age that was annuled by his powerful father's influence with the catholic church.
When LBJ first came to Washington as a senator from Texas, he was neighbors with Hoover. They became very good friends. I've read where LBJ just loved gossip and Hoover would let him peak at the notorious secret files he had on everyone who was anyone. Nixon, LBJ. Reagan, and Ford were but a few of the powerful Hoover's "boys"
According to a book 'WILLIAM SULLIVAN" later wrote..."Hoover was delighted to have Ford on the Warren Commission". "He was our man, our informant on the Warren Commission".

 

[danmurphy jr]

You heard it here. Connolly's wife on a talk show said "His last words before losing consciousness. "They're going to get us all" LBJ to an aide Nov.21, "He(JFK) won't be bothering us any more.

 

[The Judge]

Double Cross written by former Chicago Mafia Boss, Sam Giancana?s son and brother presents a very interesting story of corruption and betrayal at the highest levels.

On the 14th November 1957 Sam Giancana had represented Chicago at the ill-fated mob meeting in Appalachin NewYork where hoards of mafia men were captured by the police, some escaped through the woods Giancana among them. Sixty-three members of La Cosa Nostra from all parts of the USA were eventually rounded up by the cops, there names now noted by government agencies. The FBI Director J.Edgar Hoover now ordered a huge intelligence-gathering operation, his agents had to focus on the top ten mobsters in each major city, Giancana filled the feds No.1 slot for Chicago.

In November of 1957, John F Kennedy declared his candidacy for the 1960 presidential nomination. His father Joe had made millions from importing whisky across the border from Canada in the days of prohibition he still had many mob connections from those days. Joe was a smart guy he knew he would need to enlist the help of the outfit to put his son in the White House and he saw his sons friendship with Frank Sinatra as the ideal link to the mob via Sam Giancana.

Giancana and Joe Kennedy met in the chambers of a Chicago judge. Sam took Old Man Kennedy?s proposition to the outfits ?board of directors?. Kennedy had promised that his guys would back off their interest in the outfits Las-Vegas casino?s operations, Sam also bragged to his friends that he?d have a ?hot-line? to the White House he hinted also that maybe they would get Cuba back. For this to bare fruit they in return would raise money for John F Kennedy?s Virginia primary which was crucial, and would also provide help with the campaign in illinois. Kennedy won the Virginia primary by a 60-40 margin. In the election Kennedy won by the smallest of margins, one tenth of one per cent. He was propelled into the White House due to Giancana?s control over key Chicago wards and labor union votes.

Sam Giancana at one time shared a girlfriend with JFK. Frank Sinatra had been sleeping on and off with a dark haired beauty named Judith Cambell, she had been introduced to Frank by Johnny Roselli. In February 1960 Frank Sinatra introduced Judy as she was known, to John Kennedy, they hit it off straight away, Kennedy and the young divorcee started off on what was to become a serious long-term affair. Cambell had also been introduced to Giancana by Sinatra who had introduced Sam as ?Sam Flood?, one of Giancana?s many aliases, during a period of about two years she slept with both Giancana and Johnny Roselli while still carrying on an affair with John F Kennedy.

Cambell would subsequently reveal that she carried satchels of cash from JFK to Giancana to be used in Kennedy?s West Virginia primary. Giancana was said to have told her "Your boyfriend wouldn?t be in the White House if it wasn?t for me."

Meantime J. Edgar Hoover had spotted a pattern emerging that linked Sam and Johnny Roselli to the President via the sexual connection all three had with Judy Cambell. Hoover had no great love for the Kennedy?s, he decided to wait and see what would emerge hoping that given enough rope the Kennedy?s and Giancana would hang themselves. During the summer of 61 Agent Bill Roemer set up and led a team of federal agents with the principle duty of pressuring Giancanna into making errors. His first task was to serve Giancana?s famous girlfriend Phyllis McGuire with a subpoena to appear before a federal grand jury. Roemer and the agents stopped both at Chicago's O?Hare airport, Roemer and his partner Ralph Hill tackled Giancana hitting him with a barrage of questions designed only to distract him long enough for the other agents to whisk McGuire from the airport and into a waiting car to be taken to an other location for interrogation.

Giancana and Roemer were involved in a war of words at the airport which left the agent in no doubt that Giancana was now feeling the pressure. Giancana decided it was now time to call in a few markers with the Kennedys, Old Man Kennedy in particular, he was being hounded constantly by the feds and didn't like it. He was also losing face with the outfit all he had promised if they had got Kennedy elected had not come to fruition, in fact the president had elected his own brother attorney general who in turn quickly pushed through congress a number of anti racketeering laws.

Sam Giancana was undeterred, his pact with Old Joe Kennedy could still swing things in his favor, he enlisted his old friend Sinatra to help out on his behalf. Sinatra visited the Kennedy?s at their home in Hyannis Port, while alone in a room with the attorney general Robert Kennedy he passed him a piece of paper with the name Giancana scribbled on it. "This is my buddy. This is what i wanted you to know Bob." Robert Kennedy said nothing, and from that silence Sinatra knew he had his answer.....and it didn't look good for his friend Giancana. Frank soon after fell out of the Kennedy's circle of friends.

Giancana was not well pleased with Sinatra either, as Frank had stalled in giving Kennedy?s reply to Sam, fearing it might be a case of shoot the messenger...literally. Johnny Formosa a mobster friend of Giancana`s had wanted to hit Sinatra for ?jerking us around? Giancana said no.

J. Edgar Hoover, who?s dislike of the Kennedy?s had become no less intent after they had threatened to sack him from his post as director of the FBI sent a carefully worded note to Bobby Kennedy in February of 1962. The note gave details of what Hoover knew about The President, Judith Cambell and Sam Giancana. Roughly a month later Hoover and the President met for lunch, the details of Hoover?s note to Bobby Kennedy a month earlier was the main focus of conversation. Later the same afternoon The President phoned Judith Cambell, it was their last ever conversation. He was also scheduled to stay at Frank Sinatra?s estate.....the stay was cancelled. The Kennedy?s had doubled-crossed Sam Giancana, and Robert the Attorney General was hell bent on nailing Sam?s head to the wall.

Robert Kennedy sent a team of more then 50 agents to Chicago with the orders to get results and get them fast. They targeted 40 mobsters with Sam Giancana considered number one priority. Phil Alderisio leg-breaker in-chief of the Chicago mob led a charmed life for more than 30 years he had been arrested 20 times but never convicted. He was first to fall, he was arrested, convicted and jailed. Rocco Pranno was convicted of extortion. The mob was starting to get a little shaky, was Sam Giancana losing his grip?

Upon discovering that the Kennedys had no intention of restoring their Cuban fortunes, and under unrelenting prosecution by RFK, the Syndicate appointed Giancana's second, Johnny Roselli, to initiate an assassination plot against both Kennedys beginning with JFK, using the network of CIA, Cuban Exiles and Mafia soldiers to accomplish their mission of betrayal. They hoped that by assassinating Kennedy they could implicate Castro and provide the provocation needed by the US military to invade Cuba outright.

Upon reaching the presidency, Johnson cancelled the anti-Castro plans, and refused to give credence to the provocation to invade, throwing his weight instead behind the "lone gunman" theory that implicated the CIA/Mafia/Exile patsy, Lee Harvey Oswald. In fact, Oswald was CIA but thought he was on his way to Mexico City via Dallas to infiltrate Cuba. Johnson did not want to provoke the USSR into another nuclear standoff. By going with the lone gunman theory, he had to suppress the investigation into the assassination, an investigation that would reveal America's underside of violence and betrayal of the US-USSR agreement that resolved the Cuban Missile Crisis -- the US promise not to invade Cuba with the USSR's commitment to remove its missiles.