WE ARE! IN DENIAL!

[saint]

What he is saying is that this "problem" is a result of 4-5 INDIVIDUALS at Penn State. This "problem" is not a widespread theme of how Penn State as a whole operates.

Uh, the president, vice-president...I would say they have a direct impact of how penn st operates as a whole. :mj07:

You guys just don't get it. This wasn't about protecting 5 individuals. They did it to protect the name and reputation of a university. That name and false honor was more important than children. So...it's not enough that the 4 individuals be punished. The very thing they chose as their priority, the vaulted prosperity of Penn State University, needs to take the hit as well.

It's a ridiculous argument. Because there is no argument. The majority are correct and those blinded by loyalty are wrong.

 

[Penguinfan]

So what? Your school, so you defend? Wrong!!!! Crime is crime. Show us "cover ups that happen all the time" at Colleges. Begin now. PROVEN COVER UPS!

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.

opcorn2

I guess a good cover up, by definition, would mostly go unnoticed, wouldn't it? If you think it's not happening then you aren't paying attention.

All I would ask those in Penn State's corner:

I think this is the problem right here. I believe we feel much the same way about what happened and in no way am I defending anyone who was involved.

Your position seems to be that the entire university was involved so damn the whole place to hell.

That, and only that, is what I take issue with. PSU as a whole has done some incredible things for the community, society, charity, etc..., the medical staff has saved countless lives and I know several people with degrees from PSU who have good jobs because of it. I don't see why you want to take the entire place down when it really was just a handful of people who are to blame here.

Take a step back and re-read what I have posted. We agree, for the most part.


My example would be this, TheBoys is a major asshole and pretty much defines most things that are wrong with society today. Do I want all of MadJacks shut down because of him or would I just like to see him banned?

 

[marine]

Uh, the president, vice-president...I would say they have a direct impact of how penn st operates as a whole. :mj07:

You guys just don't get it. This wasn't about protecting 5 individuals. They did it to protect the name and reputation of a university. That name and false honor was more important than children. So...it's not enough that the 4 individuals be punished. The very thing they chose as their priority, the vaulted prosperity of Penn State University, needs to take the hit as well.

It's a ridiculous argument. Because there is no argument. The majority are correct and those blinded by loyalty are wrong.

So in essence what you are driving to is that - anyone attending or graduating Penn State since 2001 should burn their diploma because it's tainted right?
Everyone who worked there should give the salary they earned back

Because the entire organization is tainted by these individuals' actions

Right? It's not just about football. People way higher than the football program were involved in this. Anything and everything under their purview is tainted, right?

 

[freelancc]

My example would be this, TheBoys is a major asshole and pretty much defines most things that are wrong with society today. Do I want all of MadJacks shut down because of him or would I just like to see him banned?

We are all a little bit crazy and just don't know it; because we tend to hang out with people who are similiarly crazy, so our crazyiness is not apparent. But when we come across people with differing views and attitudes, our individual craziness and those of others is readily apparent. But this is a good thing,(or can be if we want to learn) and therefore Madjacks, is a good thing too..:0074

ok guys, carry on..:0074

 

[Cie]

So in essence what you are driving to is that - anyone attending or graduating Penn State since 2001 should burn their diploma because it's tainted right?
Everyone who worked there should give the salary they earned back

Because the entire organization is tainted by these individuals' actions

Right? It's not just about football. People way higher than the football program were involved in this. Anything and everything under their purview is tainted, right?

Marine: Imo, Penn state has sustained a black eye that will not go away in the foreseeable future.I feel for the alumni, staff, students and faculty of this formerly outstanding university, but not as much as I feel for the raped children, who were the victims of not only a serial rapist, but of a group of selfish, power-hungry assholes led by Paterno. How Penn St allows a statue of the monster formerly known as JoePa on their campus is beyond my comprehension. I see no reason to shut down the football program, though. Paterno is dead, and the rest of the known culprits in the cover-up will soon get theirs.

 

[RAYMOND]

joe must go

 

[fatdaddycool]

P-Fan and Marine are simply making the point of don't burn the village because one family is crazy.


Penn State is an educational institution that has a very large enrollment. I imagine someones kids are there right now that had absolutely no idea of what was going on and still have no idea, They enrolled because of the education and the institution.

No person is bigger than any institution, period. I cannot hold every swinging dick that went to Penn state accountable for the actions of others, nor can you assume that the legacy of the institution is tainted. The legacy of individuals that were employed by the university that were involved is all that is ruined. Penn State is still and excellent school and ass rape is not part of the application process. I am not defending the actions of any human beings, but buildings with letters on it hardly qualifies as a human being.

 

[azbob]

I think the issue is that we are spending alot of time comparing this incident to past scandals involving NCAA schools.

The problem is this isn't like any scandal...it's criminal and there are at least nine (and who believes that is the real number versus all of those too ashamed to come forward) child victims. The point...at least 3-6 of those victimizations could have been avoided.

There's a difference between ignoring the facts when boosters are paying athletes versus ignoring the facts when little boys are being raped.

The culture and leadership at Penn State weighed those victims against their football program and their reputation and chose to be silent.

That's why the institution has to be penalized. Take down the statue, one-year suspension of the program, scholarship limits for five years and indictments for the top four including Paterno (I don't know if you can indict a dead man). I think that is the absolute minimum.

Of course PS is going to pay out alot of money in civil suits but, that is taxpayer money from the people of PA. The institution has to be held accountable for institutional neglience.

 

[saint]

Very good article on the dark side of Paterno, and "doing things the Penn State Way"

It discussed the case of the woman in charge of disciplining players and how Paterno would basically force her to give them service instead of suspensions. It also quotes Spanier as telling her she's one of the few that has seen Joe's dark side while firing her....all confirmed via emails and reports-

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/15/us/triponey-paterno-penn-state/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

 

[fatdaddycool]

penalized.

I think Sandy took care of that.


I know I know, it's a different word than penile but still funny. The crimes committed are vile and disgusting but as always, I think the press is making it into a mockery.

Penilize the guilty, increase awareness. Put standards in place to avoid it ever happening again, do right by the helpless victims and move on.

 

[gjn23]

Very good article on the dark side of Paterno, and "doing things the Penn State Way"

It discussed the case of the woman in charge of disciplining players and how Paterno would basically force her to give them service instead of suspensions. It also quotes Spanier as telling her she's one of the few that has seen Joe's dark side while firing her....all confirmed via emails and reports-

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/15/us/triponey-paterno-penn-state/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

THAT is why the university must be penalized in the form of SEVERE football sanctions

hell, they STILL dont get it.....they fuking board is afraid of taking down the statue (and hoping this goes away) because of a bunch of lunatic "fans" and "students"

make em sit in an empty stadium for a year or two listening over and over to the testimony of the victims with videos of paterno and sandusky laughing it up on the sidelines or paterno wearing a blindfold.....maybe they'll eventually get it.

the current players wont be penalized, they'll all be allowed to leave, take a free ride at another school and play football.

 

[marine]

Ethical chest beaters,

Look, all of you that are crying for the Football program there to suffer for this, you have got to be kidding me.

1. You're beating your chests about how Paterno is a monster, and how because paterno was involved in this, the football program should suffer a horrific death,
even though no player on the team did something wrong,
even though the young assisstant coach raised his hand and said "something is wrong here"

And Sandusky.. was not even a member of the football team when McQuery walked in and saw the wrongdoings in 2002. Yes, it was in the football facility, but he had retired back in '99.


So I ask you. If you want to punish the entirity of the football organization because of these criminal actions, I would expect to hear you thumping your chest and screaming your battle cry to have an entire academic building torn down or an entire dormitory foreclosed when some student overdoses on his crank late one friday night, or some dumb freshman gets alcohol poisoning in the form and hurts someone. Right? Because the crime happened there, it might have been an Agricultural Science student doing some lab work after hours and decides to shoot up and dies... you want the Ag Science building and program torn down because what he did was clearly illegal, and, it happened right there in that building. Clearly the entirity of that program is corrupted.


Do you begin to understand what I am saying?

Paterno... you want the football team punished and villified because Paterno did not do enough here. And your logic has been - Paterno = football. If Paterno goes bad, the entire football program must be bad.

Look, bad bad things happened here and justice needs to be served. There is no arguing that.

So, when the campus President and Vice President are involved in this, WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU NOT CHANTING TO HAVE THE ENTIRITY OF PENN STATE SHUT DOWN AND PUNISHED?

You're not, because somehow, you are able to justify it in your mind that "it's different" and "there's no need to punish the innocent students"
But yet, you're willing, and cheering for it to happen to the student athletes in the football program.

Shame on you, shame on all of you.

 

[Penguinfan]

Ethical chest beaters,

Look, all of you that are crying for the Football program there to suffer for this, you have got to be kidding me.

1. You're beating your chests about how Paterno is a monster, and how because paterno was involved in this, the football program should suffer a horrific death,
even though no player on the team did something wrong,
even though the young assisstant coach raised his hand and said "something is wrong here"

And Sandusky.. was not even a member of the football team when McQuery walked in and saw the wrongdoings in 2002. Yes, it was in the football facility, but he had retired back in '99.


So I ask you. If you want to punish the entirity of the football organization because of these criminal actions, I would expect to hear you thumping your chest and screaming your battle cry to have an entire academic building torn down or an entire dormitory foreclosed when some student overdoses on his crank late one friday night, or some dumb freshman gets alcohol poisoning in the form and hurts someone. Right? Because the crime happened there, it might have been an Agricultural Science student doing some lab work after hours and decides to shoot up and dies... you want the Ag Science building and program torn down because what he did was clearly illegal, and, it happened right there in that building. Clearly the entirity of that program is corrupted.


Do you begin to understand what I am saying?

Paterno... you want the football team punished and villified because Paterno did not do enough here. And your logic has been - Paterno = football. If Paterno goes bad, the entire football program must be bad.

Look, bad bad things happened here and justice needs to be served. There is no arguing that.

So, when the campus President and Vice President are involved in this, WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU NOT CHANTING TO HAVE THE ENTIRITY OF PENN STATE SHUT DOWN AND PUNISHED?

You're not, because somehow, you are able to justify it in your mind that "it's different" and "there's no need to punish the innocent students"
But yet, you're willing, and cheering for it to happen to the student athletes in the football program.

Shame on you, shame on all of you.

Well said.

 

[PaSprint]

Ethical chest beaters,

Look, all of you that are crying for the Football program there to suffer for this, you have got to be kidding me.

1. You're beating your chests about how Paterno is a monster, and how because paterno was involved in this, the football program should suffer a horrific death,
even though no player on the team did something wrong,
even though the young assisstant coach raised his hand and said "something is wrong here"

And Sandusky.. was not even a member of the football team when McQuery walked in and saw the wrongdoings in 2002. Yes, it was in the football facility, but he had retired back in '99.


So I ask you. If you want to punish the entirity of the football organization because of these criminal actions, I would expect to hear you thumping your chest and screaming your battle cry to have an entire academic building torn down or an entire dormitory foreclosed when some student overdoses on his crank late one friday night, or some dumb freshman gets alcohol poisoning in the form and hurts someone. Right? Because the crime happened there, it might have been an Agricultural Science student doing some lab work after hours and decides to shoot up and dies... you want the Ag Science building and program torn down because what he did was clearly illegal, and, it happened right there in that building. Clearly the entirity of that program is corrupted.


Do you begin to understand what I am saying?

Paterno... you want the football team punished and villified because Paterno did not do enough here. And your logic has been - Paterno = football. If Paterno goes bad, the entire football program must be bad.

Look, bad bad things happened here and justice needs to be served. There is no arguing that.

So, when the campus President and Vice President are involved in this, WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU NOT CHANTING TO HAVE THE ENTIRITY OF PENN STATE SHUT DOWN AND PUNISHED?

You're not, because somehow, you are able to justify it in your mind that "it's different" and "there's no need to punish the innocent students"
But yet, you're willing, and cheering for it to happen to the student athletes in the football program.

Shame on you, shame on all of you.

I was away all weekend at the Kings Royal and after reading this thread... Marine pretty much summed it up. Nothing more I can add.

 

[PaSprint]

Futhermore....I'm sure our great PA Governor that the second mile pumped a ton of $$$ into his campaign knew nothing about this either.

 

[MadJack]

Shame on you, shame on all of you.

Talk about twisting things.

 

[BobbyBlueChip]

Shame on you, shame on all of you.

Who's the ethical chest beater now? It's just 5 guys. That's it. Everyone else is clean.

I get that you've had to justify your morals in the past to cash a paycheck and it's your decision and no one is going to judge you, but spare everyone the indignation.

 

[marine]

Who's the ethical chest beater now? It's just 5 guys. That's it. Everyone else is clean.

I get that you've had to justify your morals in the past to cash a paycheck and it's your decision and no one is going to judge you, but spare everyone the indignation.

If it's just 5 guys, why are people demanding that the football program be put on suspension? That scholarships be pared down?

While my own profession in the past may not be in line with your ideals, I can assure you that at no point did I ever question my own morals and ethics in choosing the path I did.

 

[BobbyBlueChip]

No. . . .it was more than 5 guys. That was my point.

It's Matt Millen crying about his beloved program. . . .as a board member of Second Mile. . . . you don't think he knew?

All the football alumni and the boosters who went to the Second Mile golf outings in the 90's and then decided that they didn't want to be associated with Second Mile and Sandusky in the 2000's. . . .you think they didn't know?

Kill the program and give the kids there a release. Start over in 5 years. Burn the statue.

 

[JT]

Shame on us???? :facepalm: