I agree, the only solid play I see here is the Over
Bernard will not be stopped in this fight or any other, and he doesn't have the power or workrate to stop Joe...imo
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Zags/Hopkins April 12
- Thread starter Romi
- Start date
I agree, the only solid play I see here is the Over
Bernard will not be stopped in this fight or any other, and he doesn't have the power or workrate to stop Joe...imo
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Im with you gardenweasel about not betting Calzaghe, I lean towards him to win, but not at -270. A UK book like Stan James would probably have the best odds for an American against a Brit, weepaul mentioned it in the may/hatton fight and he was right, they had the best Mayweather lines. Im waiting for them to open a Hop line, did you place your bet already?
I haven?t played the under yet, I was expecting higher than +250, I hope the public inflates the line. Conventional wisdom says there is no way this gets stopped.
But if Hops is much slower than Calzaghe and takes pitty-pat combos at a distance as I expect, he?ll resort to mugging and headbutting in close. I haven?t looked into calzaghe?s history of cuts, but if its a concern, there could be an early stoppage on a cut caused by a butt, or a DQ if Hop is getting clearly beat and is fouling out of desperation. The ref assigned is important, in how they handle clinches and foul warnings.
An awesome prop bet could be ?no knockdowns scored by either?, depending on how the rules interpret a dq or early stoppage that?s not a TKO. I think there's no way either guy drops.
This fight is very tough to call. Good luck to you guys betting Calzaghe, im rooting for him on a personal level.
I haven?t played the under yet, I was expecting higher than +250, I hope the public inflates the line. Conventional wisdom says there is no way this gets stopped.
But if Hops is much slower than Calzaghe and takes pitty-pat combos at a distance as I expect, he?ll resort to mugging and headbutting in close. I haven?t looked into calzaghe?s history of cuts, but if its a concern, there could be an early stoppage on a cut caused by a butt, or a DQ if Hop is getting clearly beat and is fouling out of desperation. The ref assigned is important, in how they handle clinches and foul warnings.
An awesome prop bet could be ?no knockdowns scored by either?, depending on how the rules interpret a dq or early stoppage that?s not a TKO. I think there's no way either guy drops.
This fight is very tough to call. Good luck to you guys betting Calzaghe, im rooting for him on a personal level.
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to clarify, i dont reccommend anyone taking the under on my advice, at least not yet. i don't know why the books are only offering -270 on the over, i was expecting to play the under at +350 to +400.
the over is the bet right now, im putting it in a few parlays tomorrow. the books have over at the same odds as calzaghe to win, which is ridiculous.
the over is the bet right now, im putting it in a few parlays tomorrow. the books have over at the same odds as calzaghe to win, which is ridiculous.
Roy Jones made some comments about this fight.
Like him or not, he was definitely HBO's most insightful and least-biased commentator in recent years. Ill never forget him basically predicting a Phillips knockdown over Quartey literally seconds before it happened. I don't think anyone else in the world saw it coming.
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"For all his titles, I'd go," Jones said. "I want Calzaghe. If I've got the titles, he has to come and get it but he's got the titles so I have to go and get it.
"The way I see it is that Ricky Hatton came over and fought Floyd Mayweather so it's somebody's turn to go back over there for us, to show that we're impartial, we're fair."
(some comments about the historical impact of going from heavy back down to super-mid and winning titles in each)
Jones said he was confident Calzaghe would beat Hopkins, adding: "Calzaghe's busy and that's why I know Hopkins won't beat him because Hopkins doesn't have knockout power.
"To beat Joe, you're going to have to knock him out. He's far too busy to go 12 rounds and expect to get a decision (against him), especially in Wales.
"That's why I say it doesn't matter where you go to fight him, because you've got to knock him out wherever you go.
"I've got to knock him out but Hopkins doesn't have the power to knock him out. That's why he doesn't want to go over there and fight and I don't blame him. But I'll take the gamble."
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Like him or not, he was definitely HBO's most insightful and least-biased commentator in recent years. Ill never forget him basically predicting a Phillips knockdown over Quartey literally seconds before it happened. I don't think anyone else in the world saw it coming.
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"For all his titles, I'd go," Jones said. "I want Calzaghe. If I've got the titles, he has to come and get it but he's got the titles so I have to go and get it.
"The way I see it is that Ricky Hatton came over and fought Floyd Mayweather so it's somebody's turn to go back over there for us, to show that we're impartial, we're fair."
(some comments about the historical impact of going from heavy back down to super-mid and winning titles in each)
Jones said he was confident Calzaghe would beat Hopkins, adding: "Calzaghe's busy and that's why I know Hopkins won't beat him because Hopkins doesn't have knockout power.
"To beat Joe, you're going to have to knock him out. He's far too busy to go 12 rounds and expect to get a decision (against him), especially in Wales.
"That's why I say it doesn't matter where you go to fight him, because you've got to knock him out wherever you go.
"I've got to knock him out but Hopkins doesn't have the power to knock him out. That's why he doesn't want to go over there and fight and I don't blame him. But I'll take the gamble."
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Night im a guy who can't stand Roy Jones but you are dead on. He was great analist on HBO. He nuetralized Lampley's blindness. Probably why they got rid of him. when i first saw him i figured allhe would talk about was himself but he did a very good job. Ten times better than anything foreman offered. On another note Trinidad was a beast until Hopkins knocked him out. Lets see if Roy can. All of a sudden Hopkins has no power in everyones eyes. Hell if that pitty pat stuff Cal does is called power, i might have to look a little closer.
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I know Kessler is not the same type of fighter as Hopkins but he is big, strong, fairly quick and has a decent workrate.
Joe is going to be far to busy for B Hop.
Joe is going to be far to busy for B Hop.
I was surprised at how good he was as well, I was expecting a disaster when he commented the Tarver-Johnson fights. Hop does have some power left, but he can't seem to string any combinations. It's that counter-right that hurt Tarver and Taylor, he ducks his heads low to make him almost unhittable when throwing it. Awesome punch, but only 1 at a time, and followed by a clinch.
Lampley and Merchant kept bringing up Roy's losses even in inappropriate circumstances, seemingly trying to provoke him on air, Roy kept his cool and laughed it all off. He seems very secure with himself, with nothing to prove and little bias.
Apparently he's unreliable and non-commital, and never anmswered his phone or went to meetings, so they fired him. Lewis is a disaster. Smart and likable guy, but a terrible commentator. They could replace him with a tape recorder that says "Definitely" every 5 minutes and we wouldn't notice.
weepaul, I agree with you and Roy. Calzaghe is much busier, and neither has guy KD power. If they get hurt, Hop is too good defensively and at clinching, and Calzaghe is quick enough to bide time. Im really looking forward to the 'no knockdowns' prop.
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Its not all of the sudden, has always been that way. Trinidad was stepping up from 147 to fight a legit 160 lber, he was the much smaller guy and got stopped late from an accumulation of punches. Hopkins has a little power...but not too much
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It has always been my opinion that the Tito/Hopkins fight being cancelled for two weeks due to 911, had a really bad effect on Tito. I believe Hopkins took it in stride like an old pro but Tito peaked and could never get back on form.
Just my opinion.
Jan. 23, 2008
Copyright ? Las Vegas Review-Journal
Hopkins-Calzaghe fight set
Pair to vie for light heavyweight belt April 19
By STEVE CARP
REVIEW-JOURNAL
World super middleweight champion Joe Calzaghe will make his long-awaited U.S. debut against Bernard Hopkins on April 19 at the Thomas & Mack Center.
Thomas & Mack director Daren Libonati confirmed the date and site. An official announcement is expected to be made today in London.
Calzaghe (44-0, 32 knockouts), a 35-year-old from Wales, will move up to light heavyweight to face Hopkins (48-4, 32 KOs), who last fought July 21 when he defeated Winky Wright at Mandalay Bay. Hopkins' Ring Magazine light heavyweight title will be on the line.
Calzaghe last fought Nov. 3 when he took a 12-round unanimous decision over previously undefeated Mikkel Kessler.
Calzaghe has held the WBO super middleweight title for more than 10 years with 21 successful defenses, the longest reign of any fighter in history. But he has fought outside of the United Kingdom only three times and always has wanted a high-profile fight in the United States.
In Hopkins, he has the big-name opponent he coveted.
The two have been engaging in a war of words for a couple of months, and they nearly came to blows in the media center and later at the Floyd Mayweather Jr.-Ricky Hatton weigh-in at the MGM Grand on Dec. 7.
Hopkins, a 43-year-old from Philadelphia, was fined a record $200,000 by the Nevada Athletic Commission for starting a melee at the weigh-in for the Wright fight.
Hopkins-Calzaghe will be televised on HBO, not on pay per view as was originally planned.
Golden Boy Promotions will promote the fight in conjunction with veteran British promoter Frank Warren.
Tickets will go on sale Feb. 6 at the Thomas & Mack box office, through Planet Hollywood's Web site and at UNLVTickets.com.
Copyright ? Las Vegas Review-Journal
Hopkins-Calzaghe fight set
Pair to vie for light heavyweight belt April 19
By STEVE CARP
REVIEW-JOURNAL
World super middleweight champion Joe Calzaghe will make his long-awaited U.S. debut against Bernard Hopkins on April 19 at the Thomas & Mack Center.
Thomas & Mack director Daren Libonati confirmed the date and site. An official announcement is expected to be made today in London.
Calzaghe (44-0, 32 knockouts), a 35-year-old from Wales, will move up to light heavyweight to face Hopkins (48-4, 32 KOs), who last fought July 21 when he defeated Winky Wright at Mandalay Bay. Hopkins' Ring Magazine light heavyweight title will be on the line.
Calzaghe last fought Nov. 3 when he took a 12-round unanimous decision over previously undefeated Mikkel Kessler.
Calzaghe has held the WBO super middleweight title for more than 10 years with 21 successful defenses, the longest reign of any fighter in history. But he has fought outside of the United Kingdom only three times and always has wanted a high-profile fight in the United States.
In Hopkins, he has the big-name opponent he coveted.
The two have been engaging in a war of words for a couple of months, and they nearly came to blows in the media center and later at the Floyd Mayweather Jr.-Ricky Hatton weigh-in at the MGM Grand on Dec. 7.
Hopkins, a 43-year-old from Philadelphia, was fined a record $200,000 by the Nevada Athletic Commission for starting a melee at the weigh-in for the Wright fight.
Hopkins-Calzaghe will be televised on HBO, not on pay per view as was originally planned.
Golden Boy Promotions will promote the fight in conjunction with veteran British promoter Frank Warren.
Tickets will go on sale Feb. 6 at the Thomas & Mack box office, through Planet Hollywood's Web site and at UNLVTickets.com.
great one dimensional guys usually loose to the great guys that are multi-dimensional.......weight variations and age notwithstanding....imo...
The obvoius choice here would be Calzahge by decision.
Various books already offer props for this bout.
I'm not so sure though where the point is that you would consider it value!? :shrug:
bet365 has 1.72 for instance.
Various books already offer props for this bout.
I'm not so sure though where the point is that you would consider it value!? :shrug:
bet365 has 1.72 for instance.
I had quite a bit of dough already on zags @-270 online and was a bit shocked to see him @-200 at the MGM. I put an additional 4k on Zags at -210. I know some here are picking the upset but Hop is not Superman. I just can't see the 43 yr old beating a near prime zags. This is close to being one of my biggest wagers.
First of all, it seems like since Kessler lost to Calzaghe people dont think Kessler is all that. Kessler is one of the best fighters in the world. If there was an even line for a Kessler fight at 168 with Hopkins I would bet the farm on Kessler. I would bet him to take Taylor at 168 also, even though I think that fight would be a little closer.
Hardcore American boxing fans give Hopkins too much credit. If you guys bet on him to beat Calzaghe youre going to be throwing money out the window, give it to the homeless or something instead.
Im not saying that Calzaghe is going to completely dominate him necessarily, but he will win. Calzaghe flat out proved he is one of the best fighters in the world. If you think Kessler is just some run of the mill belt holder you are kidding yourselves, Kessler still is one of the best fighters in the world and he will prove it in the years to come. Calzaghe had to DIG deep down in that fight to win. He proved how hard he is and how much heart he has. If Hopkins can beat him I will be shocked.
I think Hopkins will give him a difficult time, but I think Calzahge will overcome any difficulties he presents. Calzaghe is a flat out winner and he will win no matter what.
What do you guys think is going to Happen? Do you think Hopkins is going to knock him out? Because I know you guys arent thinking he will outpoint Calzaghe.
This is Calzaghes first fight at 175 though so who knows how he adjusts to that weight. Still, if you think Hopkins is going to beat Calzaghe you guys are kidding yourselves.
I thought guys on this boards were sharp. I'm suprised you guys arent mentioning the obvious.
If you want to bet Calzaghe you do it in Vegas obviously. Offshore books are going to have Calzaghe as a huge favorite. American books in Vegas are where youre going to see heavier Hopkins action since he is an American boxing legend, and opening lines a little lower in anticipation of that.
So Franks (and I think theres another guy on here who lives in Vegas) what is the Vegas line on the fight? One guy mentioned that the MGM has Calzaghe at -200. I dont know if street bookies take boxing action. Back in the day when I was using local guys I wasnt betting on boxing. But American books are where youre going to want to bet Calzaghe.
Aw the good ole street bookie days. Getting down 10k, having to leave town, the girlfriend getting freaked out over being threatend at gunpoint. Miss those days.
Hardcore American boxing fans give Hopkins too much credit. If you guys bet on him to beat Calzaghe youre going to be throwing money out the window, give it to the homeless or something instead.
Im not saying that Calzaghe is going to completely dominate him necessarily, but he will win. Calzaghe flat out proved he is one of the best fighters in the world. If you think Kessler is just some run of the mill belt holder you are kidding yourselves, Kessler still is one of the best fighters in the world and he will prove it in the years to come. Calzaghe had to DIG deep down in that fight to win. He proved how hard he is and how much heart he has. If Hopkins can beat him I will be shocked.
I think Hopkins will give him a difficult time, but I think Calzahge will overcome any difficulties he presents. Calzaghe is a flat out winner and he will win no matter what.
What do you guys think is going to Happen? Do you think Hopkins is going to knock him out? Because I know you guys arent thinking he will outpoint Calzaghe.
This is Calzaghes first fight at 175 though so who knows how he adjusts to that weight. Still, if you think Hopkins is going to beat Calzaghe you guys are kidding yourselves.
I thought guys on this boards were sharp. I'm suprised you guys arent mentioning the obvious.
If you want to bet Calzaghe you do it in Vegas obviously. Offshore books are going to have Calzaghe as a huge favorite. American books in Vegas are where youre going to see heavier Hopkins action since he is an American boxing legend, and opening lines a little lower in anticipation of that.
So Franks (and I think theres another guy on here who lives in Vegas) what is the Vegas line on the fight? One guy mentioned that the MGM has Calzaghe at -200. I dont know if street bookies take boxing action. Back in the day when I was using local guys I wasnt betting on boxing. But American books are where youre going to want to bet Calzaghe.
Aw the good ole street bookie days. Getting down 10k, having to leave town, the girlfriend getting freaked out over being threatend at gunpoint. Miss those days.
before you throw the farm at calzaghe.....just consider a few points....
1)who has he fought that remotely resembles a hopkins-type style?....how many truly great fighters has calzaghe beaten?....i like kessler,but i`m nowhere near convinced he`s a great fighter...he`s fairly one dimensional..
2)how many really tough fights has joe had in which he didn`t have some manner of home court advantage?...forget "some manner",a huge homecourt advantage?...
3)who fights southpaws better than b.hop?....
no real height advantage(and if there is,it might be hopkins`)...and even though calzaghe`s been at 168, i`d say that b.hop is the more physical guy....b.hop looks emaciated at 160....and he certainly handled tarver easily...
2 things in calzaghe`s favor are hand speed and hopkins` age...but,until i see "the old hopkins",i ain`t layin` those odds....
i`m sorta shocked that everybody`s willing to empty their wallets at -250 on joe...
joe`s the fave for a reason,though...
g.l.
imo,this is a dangerous fight...
1)who has he fought that remotely resembles a hopkins-type style?....how many truly great fighters has calzaghe beaten?....i like kessler,but i`m nowhere near convinced he`s a great fighter...he`s fairly one dimensional..
2)how many really tough fights has joe had in which he didn`t have some manner of home court advantage?...forget "some manner",a huge homecourt advantage?...
3)who fights southpaws better than b.hop?....
no real height advantage(and if there is,it might be hopkins`)...and even though calzaghe`s been at 168, i`d say that b.hop is the more physical guy....b.hop looks emaciated at 160....and he certainly handled tarver easily...
2 things in calzaghe`s favor are hand speed and hopkins` age...but,until i see "the old hopkins",i ain`t layin` those odds....
i`m sorta shocked that everybody`s willing to empty their wallets at -250 on joe...
joe`s the fave for a reason,though...
g.l.
imo,this is a dangerous fight...
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I haven't seen Hopkins get hit hard in over 15 years and this pitty patty shit aint gonna hurt him either. Just stunning how people give him no shot. Yes Cal has a great work rate just like Winky and Winky got neutralized just like Hopkins does to everyone. Its crazy to think Hopkins has no shot at this. There is no way in hell Cal dominates this fight. Cal leaves a lot of openings so lets see if Hopkins finds them which i think he will. I'll take the guy who hasn't lost in over 20 years. You can throw those two bogus Taylor wins and throw them in the trash.
if calzaghe manhandles hopkins at a neutral site like vegas(joe`ll still have a shitpot load of support),then,imo,that`ll seal his legacy(not that he hasn`t already established a legacy)...
both guys have...
don`t get me wrong,i like calzaghe...had him vs kessler......
looking forward to this one.....
both guys have...
don`t get me wrong,i like calzaghe...had him vs kessler......
looking forward to this one.....
I dont want to sound like Im ragging on Hopkins because I'm not. However, at the weigh in for the Hopkins vs Wright fight I was shocked to see how flabby and out of shape Wright looked. Yes, Hopkins beat Winky who is a great fighter but Wright had absolutely no business fighting at 175.
He was at 154 his whole career until moving up to 160 for a few fights. If that fight was at 160 I actually would of liked Wright. Tarver? Come on, the guy is a joke.
He had two chances to beat Taylor and he couldnt. Pavlik knocked Taylor out once and beat him again. Hopkins isnt as great as you guys think he is.
He was at 154 his whole career until moving up to 160 for a few fights. If that fight was at 160 I actually would of liked Wright. Tarver? Come on, the guy is a joke.
He had two chances to beat Taylor and he couldnt. Pavlik knocked Taylor out once and beat him again. Hopkins isnt as great as you guys think he is.
Not sure if much stock should be put into Hops neutralizing a fat Winky. Winky's best fighting weight was 154, an astonishing 14 pounds below the 168 mark that Zags strains a bit to meet. Wright was pathetic at 170 and some people still think he did OK and had it close. Ask Kessler if that right hook to the body was pity pat. If that jackass ref didn't stop Calzaghe in his tracks, Kess could have been stopped. Hops is amazing, no doubt, a hard man that fills out 175 very well, but I think he's pushing it a bit at 43. Zags is also a smart, cerebral fighter that can make adjustments on the fly. But if your feeling Hop, take him by decision for a real nice number when it comes out.
