a quick poll--need some input

pt1gard

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jabber,

he wont be back in here anyway...

ive done some very thorough checking, using great resources, and there is no way he isnt lying ... there were no twins on that flight 77 and his BS about his non-revenue tickets is just laughable, caught by his own petard ...

hes a bully/drunk who forgets much what he writes bc hes inebriated ... he ran away when he dropped his floyd patterson guard and ran outta ideas and insults ... but like a dog returning to his own vomit i knew he couldnt stay away from posting elsewhere ...

i will not pursue such a trifle unless he tries to stick his nose in here and attempt to go blow to blow; even then i will probably ignore him bc no matter what he tries to say, he has fabricated about as low as a man can go :nono: ...

his veracity has expired amongst anyone with a discerning intellect
 

pt1gard

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interesting series

interesting series

this has lots of TV related things, angles, faked backgrounds etc ... its very intriguing and sometimes kind of hard to follow everything bc it gets pretty complex, but IMO well worth the time ... its an 8 pt. series running app. 10 mins each ... after part one you will prob be hooked

one more thing, i do thank all of you who have engaged in a civil discourse and not fallen prey to name calling ... that is, and will never be my aim, on any post or any discussion i have in life ... i wont say i have never slipped on that ... but one thing i was taught, never draw firstblood, altho if attacked i try to bite my tongue for as long as possible, however, sometimes thats not too long.:scared

that said, my main purpose, after learning a ton along the way in this thread, was to share info to anyone who might keep an open mind or have questions or not have clue one where to access things i thought were interesting ...

anyhow,

all my best to all
gregg

below is part one of september clues

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeIVD5wT4KE
 

pt1gard

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didnt you just answer your own question, marine ... did you know that non revenue tix given to relatives just dont go under 'as guests,' and dont attach real names to it ... that was my point, obviously lost on you ...

and once agin you cue up the tired drama that 'official version believers' dont discuss the questions in dispute but woud rather say i need a bible or whatever clever jab you offer to attack me--you are sounding like a shill for the gov. ...

did you read the 115 things the kean report refused to address ... do you see how many people in the military, your outfit im taking it, dont believe what happened ...

please read something, in fact please read your own bible, the PM pack of poorly researched lies, then read david ray griffins answer to that, and come back here and then lets talk ...
 
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pt1gard

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thermate found in WTC by stephen e. jones

thermate found in WTC by stephen e. jones

Thermate used to destroy WTC
B15947 / Thu, 8 Jun 2006 12:08:56 / "War on Terror"

Professor of Physics, Brigham Young University, co-chair of Scholars for 9/11 Truth and the creator of its home page and its forum, Steven Jones was interviewed by Alex Jones on GCN.

Prof. Jones, who conducted his PhD research at the Stanford Linear Accelerator Center and post-doctoral research at Cornell University and the Los Alamos Meson Physics Facility, has analyised materials from WTC and has detected the existence of thermate , used for ?cutting? the steel support columns, as evident in the photo below.

Also of note is that both BYU and Prof. Jones have been offered additional grants if he would ?change the direction? of his research. In addition, there have been threats made by an individual who ?is taking action? to stop Steven Jones? research, specifically his experiment with thermites (aluminothermics), on the grounds his work may be helpful to ?terrorists?.


http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...072&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=3

the above will link you to page with interview with stephen e. jones talking about the thermate
 

pt1gard

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jones hasnt been involved for 6 years, only a couple, and actually has left the whole thing, not sure why, prob bc of byu ...

i dont know what crashed at the pentagon, but im sure it wasnt flight 77 ... however, if there was such a manifest and the liar said his niece and twins were on it, why should the gov. lie about it, i was crossing all the Ts ...

course the gov. has lied about a thousand goofy things and wont release any of the airport vids and an incalculable other pieces of evidence but you apparently enjoy this part of their antics ... will you volunteer for a chip someday to track your money and even your own body ...

im not here to make you believe anything, you have your mind made up to be a dutiful sheeple that cant question anything and cherry picks data ... if you truly had an open mind and werent afraid of curious pox from a cat, then youd see what the kean commission produced was hogwash ...

but obviously you cant ... there are tons of facts you will never be able to dispute, yet you overlook those ... ive shown them to time and again, and men much wiser than you in your precious miltary agree, and their quotes and disdain for how bush and cheney handled this are varied, strong, and plentiful ...

you really bring nothing to the table, so unless you want to go to those 115 points and tell me why the kean commision isnt willing to even include them in the report, you cant reply and say you believe this gov. isnt trying to hide something ...

you obviously dont like me, and what i have to say, and thats understandable ... but i beg you once again, dont step into a discussion unless you are open minded enough to read and explore the other side ... trust me i have, and it stinks
 
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kevin ryan speaks out on debunked collapse

kevin ryan speaks out on debunked collapse

On Sept 11, 2001, World Trade Towers One, Two and Seven all collapsed via controlled demolition, according to Richard Gage of the Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth.

Gage is the founding member of the group, and spoke about this theory at the Bloomington 9/11 Working Group's Monday night presentation in front of large crowd at the Buskirk-Chumley Theater. The group was created in an effort to encourage further probe of the Sept. 11 attacks.

"It is important to understand it because it was a pretext for the invasion of two countries in which almost a million people have perished," Gage said.

The group, along with others who believe the Sept. 11 attacks were part of a broad conspiracy, have often been questioned and criticized by others.

"If it is a conspiracy, it is hard to believe they could pull it off," said Spencer resident Scott Ackerman, who attended the conference. However, he added that getting to the truth was important, especially on the eve of the tragedy's anniversary.

"I don't think truth is ever disrespectful," he said.

Kevin Ryan, former site manager of Environmental Health Laboratories, who spoke at the event, said the "official story" has changed several times in the past six years, but originally it was reported that "super-heated jet fuel melted the steel super-structure of these buildings and caused their collapse." However, this theory has long been debunked, Ryan said. Both Ryan and Gage argued that fires have never before or since Sept. 11 caused a high-rise building to collapse. Gage said the fire is not consistent with the type of collapse of the Twin Towers and Building Seven.

Gage also spoke about reports that allegedly showed evidence of explosions, including eye-witness reports of typical signs of demolition. Gage presented multiple videos of demolitions to demonstrate the key signs of the methods used, then showed how the same signs could be seen in the collapse of all three World Trade Towers.

The group said the "smoking gun" of Sept. 11 is World Trade Tower Building Seven, which was never mentioned in the 9/11 Commission Report published after years of investigation. Though Building Seven had been hit by some debris from the North Tower, only the seventh, 12th and 13th floors were burning, Gage said. In Caracas, Venezuela, a building burned for 17 hours on 26 floors and did not fall down, he said.

"It is virtually impossible, no, it is impossible, I'll say it," he said.

Ryan, a former site manager for Environmental Health Laboratories, also spoke at the event. Environmental Health Laboratories is a division of Underwriters Laboratories, which had done tests to confirm the fire-resistance of the steel. Ryan said he was fired from his job after he wrote a letter to a government scientist pointing out flaws in the government scientist's theory of how the towers collapsed.

Ryan also questioned the appointment of Phillip Zelikow to head the committee creating the 9/11 Commission Report, saying he was not objective. He had co-authored a book with Condoleezza Rice and worked with both George W. and George H.W. Bush.

"His self-described area of academic expertise is the 'creation and management of public myths,'" Ryan said.

Zelikow "controlled the 9/11 commission, picking areas of investigation, briefing materials, topics for hearings, witnesses ? he set the agenda," Ryan said, stressing the amount of power Zelikow was given. Sen. Max Cleland, formerly a member of the commission, resigned in protest of the group's methods.

Neither Ryan or Gage cared to speculate as to who might have orchestrated a demolition of the towers, instead preferring to talk about the inconsistencies of the government reports.

"Tonight we are concerned with science," Gage said.

Still, Gage called on the audience members to contact their local legislators and demand a new, objective probe into what happened on Sept. 11.

"Twenty-seven hundred people were murdered in what we can now safely call demolitions," Gage said. "We need to honor them by getting at the truth of what happened."
 

pt1gard

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okay, i can honor your last post, i hear what you are saying; its hard to know whos actually reading anything ... in a less confrontational manner i would be curious if you believe that the kean commsision, the offical voice of the gov.'s truth, did a fair job, addressed all the pertinent information, and whether or not another inquiry should be conducted ...

thanx
gregg
 

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too much post egg nog

too much post egg nog

DAY OF INFAMY 2001
Rumsfeld says 9-11 plane
'shot down' in Pennsylvania
During surprise Christmas Eve trip, defense secretary contradicts official story


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: December 27, 2004
1:00 a.m. Eastern



? 2004 WorldNetDaily.com


WASHINGTON ? Ever since Sept. 11, 2001, there have been questions about Flight 93, the ill-fated plane that crashed in the rural fields of Pennsylvania.

The official story has been that passengers on the United Airlines flight rushed the hijackers in an effort to prevent them from crashing the plane into a strategic target ? possibly the U.S. Capitol.

During his surprise Christmas Eve trip to Iraq, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld referred to the flight being shot down ? long a suspicion because of the danger the flight posed to Washington landmarks and population centers.


Was it a slip of the tongue? Was it an error? Or was it the truth, finally being dropped on the public more than three years after the tragedy of the terrorist attacks that killed nearly 3,000?

Here's what Rumsfeld said Friday: "I think all of us have a sense if we imagine the kind of world we would face if the people who bombed the mess hall in Mosul, or the people who did the bombing in Spain, or the people who attacked the United States in New York, shot down the plane over Pennsylvania and attacked the Pentagon, the people who cut off peoples' heads on television to intimidate, to frighten ? indeed the word 'terrorized' is just that. Its purpose is to terrorize, to alter behavior, to make people be something other than that which they want to be."

Several eyewitnesses to the crash claim they saw a "military-type" plane flying around United Airlines Flight 93 when the hijacked passenger jet crashed ? prompting the once-unthinkable question of whether the U.S. military shot down the plane.

Although the onboard struggle between hijackers and passengers ? immortalized by the courageous "Let's roll" call to action by Todd Beamer ? became one of the enduring memories of that disastrous day, the actual cause of Flight 93's crash, of the four hijacked airliners, remains the most unclear.

Several residents in and around Shanksville, Pa., describing the crash as they saw it, claim to have seen a second plane ? an unmarked military-style jet.

Well-founded uncertainty as to just what happened to Flight 93 is nothing new. Just three days after the worst terrorist attack in American history, on Sept. 14, 2001, The (Bergen County, N.J.) Record newspaper reported that five eyewitnesses reported seeing a second plane at the Flight 93 crash site.

That same day, reported the Record, FBI Special Agent William Crowley said investigators could not rule out that a second plane was nearby during the crash. He later said he had misspoken, dismissing rumors that a U.S. military jet had intercepted the plane before it could strike a target in Washington, D.C.

Although government officials insist there was never any pursuit of Flight 93, they were informed the flight was suspected of having been hijacked at 9:16 am, fully 50 minutes before the plane came down.

On the Sept. 16, 2001, edition of NBC's "Meet the Press," Vice President Dick Cheney, while not addressing Flight 93 specifically, spoke clearly to the administration's clear policy regarding shooting down hijacked jets.

Vice President Cheney: "Well, the ? I suppose the toughest decision was this question of whether or not we would intercept incoming commercial aircraft."

NBC's Tim Russert: "And you decided?"

Cheney: "We decided to do it. We'd, in effect, put a flying combat air patrol up over the city; F-16s with an AWACS, which is an airborne radar system, and tanker support so they could stay up a long time ...

"It doesn't do any good to put up a combat air patrol if you don't give them instructions to act, if, in fact, they feel it's appropriate."

Russert: "So if the United States government became aware that a hijacked commercial airline[r] was destined for the White House or the Capitol, we would take the plane down?"

Cheney: "Yes. The president made the decision ... that if the plane would not divert ... as a last resort, our pilots were authorized to take them out. Now, people say, you know, that's a horrendous decision to make. Well, it is. You've got an airplane full of American citizens, civilians, captured by ... terrorists, headed and are you going to, in fact, shoot it down, obviously, and kill all those Americans on board?

"... It's a presidential-level decision, and the president made, I think, exactly the right call in this case, to say, I wished we'd had combat air patrol up over New York.'"
 

pt1gard

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some short vids

some short vids

10 reasons why hijackers were fake http://youtube.com/watch?v=G6gtqAr241I


Cell phone calls http://youtube.com/watch?v=JQTuZxybRVM


fake bin laden tape http://youtube.com/watch?v=suTshPgoJX0


9 hijackers alive and Caspian oil http://youtube.com/watch?v=f7ixuf236Dk

Lee Hamilton avoids Israel question http://youtube.com/watch?v=J1bm2GPoFfg

typical FOX NEWS ad hominem attack http://youtube.com/watch?v=qzIzoD-MhIE

more hannity and colmes bullying http://youtube.com/watch?v=tD21nP_P2yg
 

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luke skywalker

luke skywalker

At Freeway Airport in Bowie, Md., 20 miles west of Washington, flight instructor Sheri Baxter instantly recognized the name of alleged hijacker Hani Hanjour when the FBI released a list of 19 suspects in the four hijackings. Hanjour, the only suspect on Flight 77 the FBI listed as a pilot, had come to the airport one month earlier seeking to rent a small plane.... However, when Baxter and fellow instructor Ben Conner took....Hanjour on three test runs during the second week of August, they found he had trouble controlling and landing the single-engine Cessna 172. .....chief flight instructor Marcel Bernard declined to rent him a plane without more lessons.

Washington Post - On Flight 77: 'Our Plane Is Being Hijacked' - 9/12/01 - Page A01
...the unidentified pilot executed a pivot so tight that it reminded observers of a fighter jet maneuver. The plane circled 270 degrees to the right to approach the Pentagon from the west, whereupon Flight 77 fell below radar level, vanishing from controllers' screens, the sources said.... Aviation sources said the plane was flown with extraordinary skill, making it highly likely that a trained pilot was at the helm... Someone even knew how to turn off the transponder, a move that is considerably less than obvious.
 
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