a quick poll--need some input

SixFive

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Here's what Rumsfeld said Friday: "I think all of us have a sense if we imagine the kind of world we would face if the people who bombed the mess hall in Mosul, or the people who did the bombing in Spain, or the people who attacked the United States in New York, shot down the plane over Pennsylvania and attacked the Pentagon, the people who cut off peoples' heads on television to intimidate, to frighten ? indeed the word 'terrorized' is just that. Its purpose is to terrorize, to alter behavior, to make people be something other than that which they want to be."


ptguard, seems an obvious slip of the tongue to me. Wouldn't have been the first time Rummy misspoke, would it? His rant here is AGAINST terrorists (and he gives several examples of terrorism including the plane that went down in Pa.). Are we to discount all the cell phone and jet phone calls to loved ones? How about "Let's Roll" from Mr. Beam I think it was?? :shrug:

This one seems pretty weak.

Weaker still might be the discussion of thermite use in the towers to help with their toppling. :142smilie
 

SixFive

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hanjour again?? I don't see why it's so hard to believe that he could fly a plane when he had both his commercial and private license (is that part of the cover-up? Did they just give those to him??). I would think the hardest parts of flying would be take off, landing, and bad weather. Even if Hanjour sucked, he didn't have to do any of these things, and I think you can put planes on auto pilot and input GPS coordinates.
 

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Yes those are all true incidents pt1guard. Even more telling, operations GLADIO, AJAX and CONDOR, highlight exactly what intell agencies are capable of to "maintain our system". They've had a long history of infiltrating subversive organizations, and even establishing some. In many cases without the lower level "terrorists" or subversives even knowing who they really work for. One can only assume that the networks have gotten even better over the decades. And with organizations like the notorious Pakistani ISI and Saudi secret police "playing ball" with our side, there can be little doubt that many of these "terrorists" have been manipulated. To what degree would be the only question.
 

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thanks T

thanks T

i had very lil knowledge on gladio and just read on it ... i knew about ajax and am posting info on it for others that think usa is squeaky clean ... also inserting reagans semi-confession of his backdoor handshake to levergae american hostages for arms, then have them released 5 mins after he was swore in following their 444 days of captivity; simply amazing coincidence, kinda like terrorists passports floating to the ground amidst conflagrations :shrug: ...

anyhow, either way you blame it, reagan's veiled half apology, its still usa doing these things ...http://www.evtv1.com/player.aspx?itemnum=6808&aid=19...\


How America really promotes democracy



An Anti-Democracy Foreign Policy: Iran
by Jacob G. Hornberger, January 31, 2005


When Iranians took U.S. officials hostage in the U.S. embassy in Tehran in 1979, Americans were mystified and angry, not being able to comprehend how Iranians could be so hateful toward U.S. officials, especially since the U.S. government had been so supportive of the shah of Iran for some 25 years. What the American people failed to realize is that the deep anger and hatred that the Iranian people had in 1979 against the U.S. government was rooted in a horrible, anti-democratic act that the U.S. government committed in 1953.

That was the year the CIA secretly and surreptitiously ousted the democratically elected prime minister of Iran, a man named Mohammad Mossadegh, from power, followed by the U.S. government?s ardent support of the shah of Iran?s dictatorship for the next 25 years.

Today, very few Americans have ever heard of Mohammad Mossadegh, but that wasn?t the case in 1953. At that time, Mossadegh was one of the most famous figures in the world. Here?s the way veteran New York Times correspondent Stephen Kinzer decribes him in his book All the Shah?s Men:

In his time, Mohammad Mossadegh was a titanic figure. He shook an empire and changed the world. People everywhere knew his name. World leaders sought to influence him and later to depose him. No one was surprised when Time magazine chose him over Harry Truman, Dwight Eisenhower, and Winston Churchill as its Man of the Year for 1951.

(Kinzer?s book, published in 2003, is an excellent account of the CIA coup; much of this article is based on his book.)

There were two major problems with Mossadegh, however, as far as both the British and American governments were concerned. First, as an ardent nationalist he was a driving force behind an Iranian attempt to nationalize the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company, a British company that had held a monopoly on the production and sale of Iranian oil since the early part of the 20th century. Second, fiercely independent, Mossadegh refused to do the bidding of the U.S. government, which by this time had become fearful that Mossadegh might align Iran with America?s World War II ally and post?World War II enemy, the Soviet Union.

As Kinzer puts it,

Historic as Mossadegh?s rise to power was for Iranians, it was at least as stunning for the British. They were used to manipulating Iranian prime ministers like chess pieces, and now, suddenly, they faced one who seemed to hate them....

[U.S. presidential envoy Averell] Harriman paid a call on the Shah before leaving Tehran, and during their meeting he made a discreet suggestion. Since Mossadegh was making it impossible to resolve the [Anglo-American Oil Company] crisis on a basis acceptable to the West, he said, Mossadegh might have to be removed. Harriman knew the Shah had no way of removing Mossadegh at that moment. By bringing up the subject, however, he foreshadowed American involvement in the coup two years later.

The 1953 CIA coup in Iran was named ?Operation Ajax? and was engineered by a CIA agent named Kermit Roosevelt, the grandson of President Theodore Roosevelt. Capitalizing on the oil-nationalization showdown between Iran and Great Britain, which had thrown Iran into chaos and crisis, Kermit Roosevelt skillfully used a combination of bribery of Iranian military officials and CIA-engendered street protests to pull off the coup.

The first stage of the coup, however, was unsuccessful, and the shah, who had partnered with the CIA to oust Mossadegh from office, fled Tehran in fear of his life. However, in the second stage of the coup a few days later, the CIA achieved its goal, enabling the shah to return to Iran in triumph ... and with a subsequent 25-year, U.S.-supported dictatorship, which included one of the world?s most terrifying and torturous secret police, the Savak.

For years, the U.S. government, including the CIA, kept what it had done in Iran secret from the American people and the world, although the Iranian people long suspected CIA involvement. U.S. officials, not surprisingly, considered the operation one of their greatest foreign-policy successes ... until, that is, the enormous convulsion that rocked Iranian society with the violent ouster of the shah and the installation of a virulently anti-American Islamic regime in 1979.

It is impossible to overstate the magnitude of anger and hatred that the Iranian people had for the U.S. government in 1979, not only because their world-famous democratically elected prime minister had been ousted by the CIA but also for having had to live for the following 25 years under a brutal and torturous dictatorship, a U.S.-government-supported dictatorship that also offended many Iranians with its policies of Westernization. In fact, the reason that the Iranian students took control of the U.S. embassy after the violent ouster of the shah in 1979 was their genuine fear that the U.S. government would repeat what it had done in 1953.

Imagine, for example, that it turned out that a foreign regime had secretly and surreptitiously ousted President Kennedy from office because of his refusal to do the bidding of that foreign regime. What would have been the response of the American people toward that government?

Indeed, imagine that the CIA had ousted Kennedy to protect our ?national security,? given what some in the CIA believed to be Kennedy?s ?soft-on-communism? mind-set, evidenced, for example, by his refusal to provide air support at the Bay of Pigs, which resulted in the CIA?s failure to oust communist Fidel Castro from power in Cuba. What would have been the response of the American people to that?

At the time of the CIA coup, Iran was in fact in crisis and chaos. But democracy is oftentimes messy and unpredictable, and it no more guarantees freedom and economic stability than authoritarianism or totalitarianism does. (Think about the crisis and economic instability during America?s Great Depression along with Franklin Roosevelt?s New Deal policies.) All democracy does is provide people with the means to bring about a peaceful transition of power. By violently injecting itself into Iran?s democratic process through its removal of their democratically elected prime minister, the U.S. government guaranteed the omnipotent dictatorship of the (unelected) shah, a dictatorship that would continue for the next 25 years, with the full support of the U.S. government. It was a convulsive event whose consequences continue to shake America and the world today.

As historian James Bill stated (quoted in Kinzer?s book),

[The coup] paved the way for the incubation of extremism, both of the left and of the right. This extremism became unalterably anti-American.... The fall of Mossadegh marked the end of a century of friendship between the two countries, and began a new era of U.S. intervention and growing hostility against the United States among the weakened forces of Iranian nationalism.
Kinzer writes,

The coup brought the United States and the West a reliable Iran for twenty-five years. That was an undoubted triumph. But in view of what came later, and of the culture of covert action that seized hold of the American body politic in the coup?s wake, the triumph seems much tarnished. From the seething streets of Tehran and other Islamic capitals to the scenes of terror attacks around the world, Operation Ajax has left a haunting and terrible legacy.


Mohammad Mossadegh died in 1967 at the age of 82, having been under house arrest in his hometown of Ahmad Abad since the time of the 1953 CIA coup that ousted him from power. The shah of Iran, who would remain in power until the Iranian Revolution of 1979, would not permit any public funeral or other expression of mourning for Mossadegh.

In a speech delivered in March 2000 by Madeleine Albright (then secretary of state ), the U.S. government finally acknowledged what it had done to the Iranian people and to democracy in Iraq:

In 1953, the United States played a significant role in orchestrating the overthrow of Iran?s popular prime minister, Mohammed Mossadegh. The Eisenhower administration believed its actions were justified for strategic reasons, but the coup was clearly a setback for Iran?s political development and it is easy to see now why many Iranians continue to resent this intervention by America in their internal affairs. Moreover, during the next quarter century, the United States and the West gave sustained backing to the Shah?s regime. Although it did much to develop the country economically, the Shah?s government also brutally repressed political dissent.

As President Clinton has said, the United States must bear its fair share of responsibility for the problems that have arisen in U.S.-Iranian relations.

Not surprisingly, Albright?s ?apology? fell on many deaf ears in Iran. While Iranians certainly have not forgotten the U.S. government?s support of Saddam Hussein and Iraq during the Iran-Iraq War during the 1980s, including its furnishing Saddam with weapons of mass destruction to use against the Iranian people, the root of Iranian anger lies with the anti-democracy foreign policy of the U.S. government, by which U.S. officials ousted the Iranian people?s democratically elected prime minister, Mohammed Mossadegh, from office in 1953.
 
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pt1gard

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gosh, no parallels

gosh, no parallels

in response that usa postion was that israel claimed it was a case of mistaken identity

Israeli Pilot Speaks Up

Fifteen years after the attack, an Israeli pilot approached Liberty survivors and then held extensive interviews with former Congressman Paul N. (Pete) McCloskey about his role. According to this senior Israeli lead pilot, he recognized the Liberty as American immediately, so informed his headquarters, and was told to ignore the American flag and continue his attack. He refused to do so and returned to base, where he was arrested.

Later, a dual-citizen Israeli major told survivors that he was in an Israeli war room where he heard that pilot's radio report. The attacking pilots and everyone in the Israeli war room knew that they were attacking an American ship, the major said. He recanted the statement only after he received threatening phone calls from Israel.

The pilot's protests also were heard by radio monitors in the U.S. Embassy in Lebanon. Then-U.S. Ambassador to Lebanon Dwight Porter has confirmed this. Porter told his story to syndicated columnists Rowland Evans and Robert Novak and offered to submit to further questioning by authorities. Unfortunately, no one in the U.S. government has any interest in hearing these first-person accounts of Israeli treachery.

Key members of the Lyndon Johnson administration have long agreed that this attack was no accident. Perhaps most outspoken is former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Admiral Thomas Moorer. "I can never accept the claim that this was a mistaken attack," he insists.

Former Secretary of State Dean Rusk is equally outspoken, calling the attack deliberate in press and radio interviews. Similarly strong language comes from top leaders of the Central Intelligence Agency, National Security Agency (some of whose personnel were among the victims), National Security Council, and from presidential advisers such as Clark Clifford, Joseph Califano and Lucius Battle.

A top-secret analysis of Israel's excuse conducted by the Department of State found Israel's story to be untrue. Yet Israel and its defenders continue to stand by their claim that the attack was a "tragic accident" in which Israel mistook the most modern electronic surveillance vessel in the world for a rusted-out 40-year-old Egyptian horse transport.

Despite the evidence, no U.S. administration has ever found the courage to ever found the courage to defy the Israeli lobby by publicly demanding a proper accounting from Israel.


How Does Congress React to These Complaints?

Most members of Congress respond to inquiries about the Liberty with seemingly sympathetic promises to "investigate." Weeks or months later they write again to report their "findings": "The Navy investigated in 1967 and found no evidence that the attack was deliberate," they say." Israel apologized, calling the attack a tragic case of misidentification, and paid damages for loss of life, injuries and property damage. The matter is closed.

The fact is, however, that the Navy's "investigation" examined only the quality of the crew's training, the adequacy of communications and the performance of the crew under fire. The Navy was forbidden to examine Israeli culpability and Navy investigators refused to allow testimony showing that the attack was deliberate or that Israel's excuse was untrue.


The Navy blocked all testimony about Israeli actions.

Instead of determining whether the attack was deliberate, the Navy blocked all testimony about Israeli actions. No survivor was permitted to describe the close in machine-gun fire that continued for 40 minutes after Israel claims all firing stopped. No survivor was allowed to talk about the life rafts the Israeli torpedo men machine-gunned in the water. No survivor was permitted to challenge defects and fabrications in Israel's story. Even my eyewitness testimony as officer-of-the deck was withheld from the official record. No evidence of Israeli culpability was "found" because no such testimony was allowed. To survivors, this was not an investigation. It was a cover-up.


Congress Goes Through the Motions

Occasionally a member of Congress will seem to probe a bit deeper, as Ted Kennedy once did. In response to requests, Kennedy asked Liberty survivors and others for input,which his staff then "studied" for more than a year.

Kennedy asked no questions, conducted no interviews, and showed no curiosity about the many discrepancies in Israel's story. Then Kennedy reported his "findings" in a letter to survivors. Carefully avoiding the circumstances of the attack, Kennedy's letter deplored the "tragic circumstances and loss of life" and declared that the facts about the Liberty must be uncovered "to the maximum extent humanly possible."

That letter, however, represented Kennedy's maximum effort. Appeals to Kennedy for some real help go unanswered.


The Quest Goes On


Unfortunately, the playing field often seems uneven. The cover-up side heavily outnumbers its critics, and is allowed tactics rarely tolerated from others. Criticism of Israeli policies is seen as "attacks on the Jewish homeland." Pro-Israel debaters charge that Israel's critics are "disciples of hate," and "pathological haters of Israel and all things Jewish."


some of you will start to put 2 and 2 together someday and wake up ... many like tony t, sponge and a few others have minds of their own and are interested in independent thought, not the lies jammed down our throats by repeating presidential buzzwords written by others that can actually speak and read, and the worst, the mass media w/o guts enough to clamor for another 'real' investigation, not one delayed by Bush for years who then appointed kissinger and other sycophants and refused to answer the real thorns that would expose them
 
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The Judge

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Gregg, I have always admired your persona on this board. However, you seem to have been consumed with this consiratorial train of thought lately which makes me wonder if there has been some recent significant event in your life which has led to this obsession.

I am not in any way trying to undermine your opinions and I have actually admired the manner in which you have researched these topics but all of this seems to me to be very out of character for you and I am beginning to worry.

I pose the following question with all sincerity; are you alright?
 

pt1gard

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hehe, nah im fine, im working on a project and using the data i find ... dont worry, even tho it may appear im obsessed, i am far too normal ...

and the word conspiracy is a pejorative term, i could just as easily say, and many many believe this, that it was a govenment conspiracy that concocted such a flimsy story ... do you really think our government hasnt enacted many false flag operations in the past ...

that said in all sincerity ..

thanks for the concern tho, judge

i was curious tho, since you are the engineer here, if the building did collapse w/o explosives as you stated, how in your learned opinion do you explain all the pulverirzed, powdery concrete and poor vaporized victims and objects.
 
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pt1gard

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info and testimony at the pentagon

info and testimony at the pentagon

Why were there so many blast injuries?

Captain Stephen S. Frost ? Medical Corps reported, ?We saw many blast injuries.?7 There is a big difference between blast and burn injuries. Burn injuries are what you would see in the event of a fuel-air fire; it produces a fireball and fire, which would inflict thermal injuries on its victims. While, blast waves cause injury because of rapid external loading on the body and organs. Concussive effects of this shock wave on the victim may result in:

1. Injury to lung ? cause of greatest morbidity and mortality. Pulmonary injuries ? like pneumothorax and hemothorax.
2. Gastrointestinal blast injuries.
3. Secondary blast injury (propelled objects striking the victim).
4. Tertiary blast injury: (victim being propelled against structure by the blast wave or blast winds).
5. Burns.
6. Inhalational or toxic exposure.
7. Essentially all severely injured patients have TM perforations. Up to 30% of victims may have permanent hearing loss.8


Lt. Col. Brian Birdwell, who seems was lucky to have made it out alive, reported, ??The building exploded in front of him. The flash fire was immediate and the smoke was thick. The blast had thrown him down, giving him a concussion.?9

It appears consistently throughout, that there was a blast, ?shock wave?, ?bomb went off?, bright flash?, getting thrown about, confusion, burns, multiple explosions, and smells of cordite. All proof that there were multiple high explosive devices planted and detonated within the Pentagon.



Why weren?t the Pentagon and other high profile buildings evacuated when a hostile aircraft was approaching?

After the FAA warned the military?s air defense command that a possible hijacked airliner appeared to be heading toward Washington, the federal government failed to make any move to evacuate the White House, Capitol, State Department, or the Pentagon.10 Senators and congress people are in the Capitol building, which is not evacuated until 9:48 a.m. Only Cheney, Rice, and a few others had been evacuated to safety a few minutes after 9:03 a.m. The White House later was evacuated at 9:45 a.m.

At 9:00 a.m., the Pentagon moves its alert status up one notch from normal to Alpha. It stays on Alpha until after the attack, and then goes up two more notches to Charlie later on in the day.11 A Pentagon representative said, ?The Pentagon was simply not aware that this aircraft was coming our way.? Defense Secretary Rumsfeld and his top aides in the Pentagon claimed to be unaware of any danger up to the moment of impact.12 Yet, supposedly, since losing Flight 11, military officials are in the National Military Command Center on the east side of the Pentagon and ?are urgently talking to law enforcement and air traffic control officials about what to do.?13 Sheriff?s deputies were screaming at people to move along quickly. ?There?s a hijacked plane two minutes away. We don?t know where it?s going to hit. Keep moving,? they shouted.84 So, Sheriffs and others outside the Pentagon know that an aircraft is heading toward the Pentagon. But they did not evacuate or even warn the workers inside! They didn?t even try? and they intentionally let 124 persons die!


heres link to entire story ...http://911exposed.org/Attack1.htm
 

pt1gard

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pt1gard

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bill oreilly

bill oreilly

lightening the mood for a moment, this is hilarious, and yes he believes the official story and will bully anyone like kevin barnett and others that he invites on his show to speak their views. looks like he enjoys bullying women too.


Bill O'Reilly's
Tawdry Sex Case
by Victor Thorn

Purpose: I am forwarding this information for one (and only one) reason: for decades the mainstream corporate media has been lying, withholding information, duping and bamboozling the American public about a host of governmental crimes. These include the Oklahoma City Bombing, 9-11, TWA Flight 800, and many others. If the charges in Ms. Mackris' lawsuit against Bill O'Reilly are accurate, it will show once-and-for-all what these individuals are made of. On the other hand, if they are proven false, I still see O'Reilly getting what he deserves (call it bad karma), for like no other man in this country, he has established himself as "being on our side" and "looking out for the little guy." But the sorry truth is: O'Reilly hasn't done anything to destroy the grand illusion, and has instead perpetuated it like so many others in the controlled press. I feel these deliberate actions are inexcusable, and unless he truly exposes the power elite, I cannot forgive him. These guys (Rush Limbaugh with his illegal oxycontin, Bill Clinton's sexual predator habits, Dick Morris's toe-sucking fetish, and Mike Gallagher's pathological lying) deserve everything they get; and it's about time we quit placing them on such a pedestal. They lie to us, they're creeps, they're selling our country down the drain; and in the immortal words of the American Free Press: the media is the enemy. That's why I'm writing this piece. If all of us held their feet to the fire, they wouldn't get away with their shenanigans so easily.

Warning: Content is sexually explicit. Must be 18 years of age to read. If such material offends you, please do not read any further.

In all honesty, I?d much rather be writing about a lawsuit filed against Bill O?Reilly that indicted him for not telling the truth about 9-11. But since no such cases are forthcoming, I?ll focus instead on the lurid legal papers recently filed on October 13, 2004 in the New York State Supreme Court by Andrea Mackris, an associate producer for The O?Reilly Factor.

Before delving into this 24-page document, though, I would like to point out two important points:

1) According to court papers, the woman in question ? 33 year old Andrea Mackris ? was on the fast path to a highly successful career in the television news business, earning nearly a six-figure salary at Fox News. In fact, on different occasions she was told by Bill O?Reilly:

a) ?stick with me and I?ll take care of you?
b) ?you have a bright career ahead of you?
c) and "the second floor (alluding to Fox management) liked her"

Additionally, she was the only Fox staffer assigned to the Republican National Convention with a full-access pass, and even interviewed Hillary Clinton on August 29, 2004. My question is: why would a woman with everything going for her throw it all away and try to ?extort $60 million? from Bill O?Reilly and Fox News? If her allegations were flimsy or unprovable, this would be an example of career suicide at its most extreme.

2) In her court documents, there are specific dates for every allegation, plus lengthy transcripts which indicate that many of the conversations between her and Bill O?Reilly may have been tape-recorded.

With that said, the specific allegations leveled against Bill O?Reilly, the Fox News Channel, 20th Century Fox, and Westwood One are as follows:

?sexual harassment which created and maintained a virulent, hostile work environment through explicit, rampant, pervasive and continued sex discrimination which was so offensive and severe that it detrimentally altered the terms and conditions of the plaintiff?s employment.?

Now, I could continue this article with page-after-page of legalese, but at this point let?s get to the down-and-dirty of Ms. Mackris? lawsuit. In other words, what does she allege that Bill O?Reilly is all about?

For starters, it seems that Mr. O?Reilly has an unquenchable penchant for phone sex. This fetish is so pervasive that it is cited on at least NINE different occasions in the lawsuit. The plaintiff also alleges that Mr. O?Reilly begged her on one occasion to engage in this act with him, and also bragged about doing it with other young women.

Secondly, the legal papers point out that O?Reilly is fixated with vibrators, and also female masturbation. What follows are some excerpts:

1) O?Reilly to Mackris: ?Just use your vibrator to blow off steam.? When the plaintiff reddened, O?Reilly asked lewdly, ?What, you?ve got a vibrator don?t you? Every girl does.? When the Plaintiff responded indignantly, ?No, they don?t. Does your wife?? O?Reilly replied, ?Yes, in fact she does. She?d kill me if she knew I was telling you.?

2) ?O?Reilly informed Mackris that he advised another woman to purchase a vibrator, and had taught that woman how to masturbate while telling her sexual stories over the telephone.?

3) ?The Defendant suggested that Mackris purchase a vibrator. When the Plaintiff became embarrassed and told him she was not interested, O?Reilly again suggested: we should do it together. I could coach you through it.?

4) O?Reilly ?suggested that Mackris purchase a vibrator and name it, and that he had one shaped like a **** with a little battery in it that a woman had given him. It became apparent that the Defendant was maturbating as he spoke.? (emphasis added)

5) As a climax, ?During the course of Defendant Bill O?Reilly?s sexual rant, it became clear that he was using a vibrator upon himself, and that he ejaculated.? (emphasis added)

Lastly, during the course of this 24-page document, Mackris claims that O?Reilly:

- ?alluded to having a m?nage a trios with the Plaintiff and her friend?
- ?lost his virginity to a girl in a car at JFK?
- attended sex shows in Thailand
- had ?extra-marital dalliances with ?hot? Italian women?
- ?suggested that he would perform oral sex upon Andrea Mackris, and that she would start to perform fellatio upon his ?big cock??

If these passages aren?t disturbing enough, what really leaps out at the reader are Bill O?Reilly?s chest-thumping exhibitions of power:

Passage One

When the Plaintiff reminded the Defendant that he had done the same thing to other women who worked on The O?Reilly Factor, and that he should be careful or they might tell someone, O?Reilly vehemently threatened her with words to the effect:

?If any woman ever breathed a word I?ll make her pay so dearly that she?ll wish she?d never been born. I?ll take her through the mud, bring up things in her life and make her so miserable that she?ll be destroyed. And besides, she wouldn?t be able to afford the lawyers I can, or endure it financially as long as I can. And nobody would believe her. It?d be her word against mine, and who are they going to believe - me or some unstable woman making outrageous accusations? They?d see her as some psycho; someone unstable. Besides, I?d never make the mistake of picking unstable crazy girls like that.?

Passage Two

?If you cross Fox News Channel, it?s not just me; it?s Fox President Roger Ailes who will go after you. I?m the street guy out front making loud noises about the issues, but Ailes operates behind the scenes, strategizes and makes things happen so that one day BAM! The person gets what?s coming to them but never sees it coming. Look at Al Franken. One day he?s going to get a knock on his door and life as he?s known it will change forever. That day will happen; trust me.?

Passage Three

?During the course of this conversation, Defendant Bill O?Reilly bizarrely rambled further about Al Franken: ?Ailes knows very powerful people and this goes all the way to the top.? The Plaintiff queried: ?To the top of what?? The Defendant responded: ?Top of the country. Just look at who?s on the cover of his book [Bush and Cheney]. They?re watching him and will be for years. [Al Franken?s] finished, and he?s going to be very sorry he ever took the Fox News Channel on.?

Lastly, here is what appears to be a final tape-recorded monologue where ?Defendant O?Reilly informed the Plaintiff that he was watching a porn movie and babbled perversely regarding his fantasies concerning Carribean vacations":

?You would basically be in the shower and then I would come in and I?d join you and you would have your back to me and I would take that little loofa thing and kinda? soap up your back ? rub it all over you, get you to relax, hot water ? and um ? you know, you?d feel the tension drain out of you and uh you still would be with your back to me then I would kinda? put my arm ? it?s one of those mitts, those loofa mitts you know, so I got my hands in it ? and I would put it around front, kinda? rub your tummy a little bit with it, and then with my other hand I would start to massage your boobs, get your nipples really hard ? ?cuz I like that and you have really spectacular boobs ?

"So anyway I?d be rubbing your big boobs and getting your nipples really hard, kinda? kissing your neck from behind ? and then I would take the other hand with the falafel (sic) thing and I?d put it on your pussy but you?d have to do it really light, just kind of a tease business ??

CONCLUSION

Well, folks, there it is. Someday, unless this case is settled out-of-court, a panel of jurors will have to decide if Andrea Mackris is being truthful or not. What do you think?
 

pt1gard

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DNA, need some help here, guys, im boggled

DNA, need some help here, guys, im boggled

Fireproof DNA found at the Pentagon



? No Arabs wound up on the morgue slab??

? Thomas R. Olmsted, M.D.



The lack of evidence that a Boeing 757 had crashed into the Pentagon is only surpassed by the incredulous nature of the DNA fable.

Here are some of the many inconsistencies:

The government story line alleges that the heat was so intense that the fuselage and engines of the plane vaporized, this is how the Pentagon explained away the nearly total lack of aircraft debris in the photos. Whatever wasn?t ?pulverized? on impact, melted away in the ensuing fire ? so went the official story.

The melting point of aluminum is around 1,700 degrees F. The heat that was generated in the Pentagon fire supposedly was well above this, since they claimed that the aluminum vaporized! That happens at 11,000 degrees F!!!

DNA is an organic molecule that is very fragile, easily destroyed by temperatures at just a few hundred degrees C. It doesn?t need to be vaporized it can be destroyed by just being close to heat!

Analysis was done at Dover AFB from tissue samples that were collected for DNA identification.[ii]

Shrouded in secrecy, the government assembled a team of their own experts. The group assembled, as the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology (AFIP), claimed to have identified the human remains of all but one of the passengers on Flight 77. In other words, 99% of the remains of the people onboard were identified.

The only passenger unidentified on Flight 77 was a toddler. That passenger was Dana Falkenberg.[iii] [iv]

How is it possible that during a total vaporization of an airline, only one highly delicate DNA sample wasn?t degraded sufficiently enough to be recognized? How does human tissue survive when massive metal engines cannot?

The government can?t have it both ways.

At the World Trade Center, the New York City Medical Examiner?s office only managed to identify about half of these people killed using DNA analysis. In aiding their efforts, many bodies were intact as scores of victims died due from the collapse of the building and not due to fire.

Despite the multiple violent blasts and terrible fire, of the Pentagon attack, authorities reported that they had identified 120 out of 124 Pentagon employees, which is a 97% success rate.[ii]

How do we explain a 50% rate of identification in New York, with a 97% identification rate at the Pentagon? [ii]

The AFIP team was working on the combined samples from both the Pentagon and Shanksville incidents.

There is no public evidence that definitively linked the bodies to the Pentagon crash site. DNA technicians would have no way of knowing where all the samples came from. That would be the job of army and FBI personnel that did the collecting.

Families of the airplanes? passengers and crews and those who died within the Pentagon provided DNA samples.[iii]

All five hijackers were identified with DNA.[ii] But, to make identification with DNA you need a sample to compare it to.

How would the U.S. government get samples from hijackers? families to make the comparisons?

If the hijackers were identified, then why does there names not appear on the autopsy list of those killed on Flight 77?

The government completely controlled the autopsy. Independent investigations were never allowed.

No single family member ever insisted on an independent DNA test to match the remains held by the government with that of their loved ones.

Lisa Raines? family was notified that her remains were identified through her fingerprints. How is it possible that fingerprints could be taken after such a ?pulverizing? crash and vaporizing fire? Is it possible that her fingers were so well preserved that her fingerprints could be taken? If fingerprint matching has a higher error rate than modern DNA testing, then why wouldn?t the Pentagon have used a simple and more accurate DNA test instead?

Flight 77 passenger, Suzanne Calley?s, wedding ring, and driver?s license turns up in perfect condition from Pentagon wreckage. Capt. Jim Ingledue of the Virginia Beach Fire Department recently reported he found the completely unblemished California ID card amidst the devastation and rubble at the Pentagon.[v]

Reasonable people would agree, that this is a bit ridiculous!

Thomas R. Olmsted, M.D., who made a recent Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request in order to ?get to the bottom of what he calls a staged and phony government autopsy report? I undertook by FOIA request to get the autopsy list. Guess what? Still no Arabs on the list.?

The names on the airline passenger manifest and the names provided by the official Pentagon autopsy report showed that three names were on the autopsy list that were never passengers on Flight 77.
 
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marine

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I am ashamed for ever opening this thread and feeding into this garbage
Stupid.jpg
 
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The Judge

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i was curious tho, since you are the engineer here, if the building did collapse w/o explosives as you stated, how in your learned opinion do you explain all the pulverirzed, powdery concrete and poor vaporized victims and objects.
I am not an explosive expert but I am not surprised that concrete would become powdery after falling from that height. The primary ingredients in concrete are cement, sand, rock and water along with other additives such as flyash. All of these with the exception of rock are a powder in their original state.

What I do know about the demolition of buildings is that it takes literally weeks to prepare a mid-rise building for explosive aided demolition and that includes unfettered access to the primary stuctural columns. This process also requires that thousands of pounds of explosive be strategically placed in numerous locations and be connected to each other in series.

The preparation for an operation of this magnitude would have to have been conducted at night by crews of dozens of men and each night, their work would have to be concealed so as to avoid detection by the tens of thousands of office workers that filled the building each day.

Anyone with any common sense will realize that the preparation required for this type of an operation could not possibly have gone undetected for the weeks that an operation like this would take. Additionally, why would it be necessary to time the explosions to exactly coincide with the collision of two separate aircraft and is that even really possible?

Anyone who has seen a controlled demolition on with explosives on televisions will remember that the charges are not all set off simultaneously but rather in a series of explosions that are seconds apart. There are countless examples of video footage of the WTC collapses and there is no video evidence of a chain reaction of explosions like those that would have been used if the buildings had been brought down with explosives.
 

pt1gard

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marine,

go to jeff hills site and listen to all his phone calls to the first arrivers who saw no plane debris, none of them did, zero ... purbugh said on tape the plane was dark gray, leaning to black, not even close to the color blue it was supposed to be ... even the liar wally miller changes his story depending how angry he is each day, its comical ...

and on another note do you really believe all the dna was found at shanksville and the pentagon and half at the wtc, i mean if things 'vaporized' how do you find dna, and how do you find the terrorists dna if robert mueller, the fbi director, even admitted that they didnt know who all of them really were, seeing how they stole passports and some of the identified turned up alive--im really stumped by that one, marine please help clear that one up....

the one guy who saw 93 crash, purbaugh, if you listen to his call and his wife's, says no one ever tells the truth when they inetrview him ... again, read all the interviews and try to figure why these people wold lie on both sides ... shanksville was given 1 million to keep security around a fence that still stands, kinda odd i think .. that picture by VM is as fake as a 6 dollar bill, or do you buy into that mushroom cloud ...


judge,


why dont you think they tested a single gram of rubble from 911 or the pentagon ... whyd theyd rush everything to china ... why did so many who worked on that site either get fired or change their initial story ... why did prjectilkes shoot across the street and stick like arrows into the fed-x building 600 feet away ... wouldnt these structure be prey to gravity and 'eject' objetcs that mustve weighed hundreds of pounds if not more... this is most curious ... and why did hundreds of fdny and nypd employees testify they heard multiple explosions


cmon guys, why is the govenrnment not willing to share any hard evidence ... if your son or daughter did this on some minor incident, or someone in the courtroom, say a murder case, what would you say--oh its ok, its authority they can do whatever they like and we will go along with it.

does the government get a free pass to destroy, hide, manipulate evidence ... i mean they are innocent, so you both contend, what do they have to lose--nothing, right ... they could clear this all up in 48 hours, but they would rather have half the usa, and a majority of the world believe they have perpetuated a massive, dark plot that goes deeper than most naive citizens can fathom ...

why would a government want this mud in their jacket ... ask yourself that enough and maybe you will finally hit the alarm and wake up

and please marine dont come back with curiosity killed the cat or some other nursery school bromide
 
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The Judge

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judge,

why dont you think they tested a single gram of rubble from 911 or the pentagon ... whyd theyd rush everything to china ... why did so many who worked on that site either get fired or change their initial story ... why did prjectilkes shoot across the street and stick like arrows into the fed-x building 600 feet away ... wouldnt these structure be prey to gravity and 'eject' objetcs that mustve weighed hundreds of pounds if not more... this is most curious ... and why did hundreds of fdny and nypd employees testify they heard multiple explosions
Gregg, I don't pretend to have answeres to all of the questions that you pose. I can only respond to what I know and have done so to the best of my ability based on my limited field of expertise. However, I think that the points that I raise about what it takes to rig a high-rise structure with explosives are valid and I defy anyone to explain to me how an operation of that magnitude go undetected for weeks.
 

pt1gard

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great interview with russ wittenberg

great interview with russ wittenberg

heres a pilot who's flown both a 757 and 767 many times ...

click this...

http://911underground.com/wingtv/

and scroll to near bottom of list then click the below link ...

2004-09-16 Russ Wittenberg Interview


... its well worth hearing facts from an expert
 

pt1gard

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judge,

it wouldnt take weeks from what ive learned and there was a power out at wtc for first time ever from what i heard in days before 9/11 ...
 
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