a quick poll--need some input

[TonyTT]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGAiyJ_l2a8

IF you have 4 mins watch this, if you would rather not know anything, then pass like 50 per cent of usa seems to prefer ... there are thousands of scientists and respected univ. profs that think the 911 kean commmsion is a joke ... how can anyone make learned comments without investigating

pt1gard,

I was where you are now man....give it up! No doubt you think things aren't on the up-and-up in this whole ordeal. Probably thinking those idiots were manipulated by intell agencies. Maybe even thinking the Pakistani ISI and Saudi secret police at the behest of u know who. But of course if any of that is true then that makes US the evil empire. Of course if that is proven then that could destroy our entire system. You must look at the bigger picture in this dog eat dog world and see why sometimes sacrafices are made for the good of the system. I can tell you won't change your mind on this issue and certainly the others won't change their minds either. That's good, their way of thinking is absolutely vital for the good of our system. This 9-11 conspiracy stuff will remain just that.....conspiracy stuff! Give it up.

 

[pt1gard]

if anyone actually has an open mind

if anyone actually has an open mind

the obvious conspiracy lies in the kean report, but i understand what you are saying ... bill o'reilly barks loudly how popular mechanics shot down every question, that is laughable, obviously he never read and is afraid to read griffins debunking of the PM kindergarten manifesto ...

try listening to the brains of the PM research team, davin coburn, undressed on radio and proven to be a liar and backpedaling boob by some caller in arizona--its hysterical ....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WULRQCgvsdE


TT, so the greater good/machiavellian theory, if thats what its come down to as we turn a blind eye to tonkin, panama deception, murder etc, then i personally think its worth blowing some whistles or at least letting our intentions known--tho im sure that's an Oneida mindset.

i work with kids and have trouble swallowing the lies and looking them in the eye on things that matter ... maybe one day things will change and we wont need oil

 

[pt1gard]

Witnesses to the Towers' Explosions


For years, researchers of the 9/11 attack have built a case for the controlled demolition of the Twin Towers primarily on the basis of one body of evidence: the scores of photographs and videos of the Towers coming down. Whereas authorities were unable to prevent the circulation of this visual evidence, they successfully suppressed the largest body of eyewitness evidence for nearly four years. That body is a collection of hundreds of "oral histories" 503 firefighters, paramedics, and emergency medical technicians, many of whom witnessed some aspect of the total destruction of the Twin Towers.

The vast majority of these accounts remained suppressed by the city until the New York Times won a Freedom of Information lawsuit against the City of New York in 2005, and announced the release of the records on August 8, 2005. The newspaper published the accounts in the form of PDF documents. 1

A perusal of some excerpts of these accounts containing recollections of the sights, sounds, and immediate observations of the destruction of the Twin Towers suggests the reason the city fought to keep them suppressed: the witnesses consistently describe loud bangs at the onsets of the events, and explosive features characteristic of controlled demolition.


Rich Banaciski -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Ladder 22]
... and then I just remember there was just an explosion. It seemed like on television they blow up these buildings. It seemed like it was going all the way around like a belt, all these explosions.


Brian Becker -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Engine 28]
The collapse hadn't begun, but it was not a fire any more up there. It was like -- it was like that -- like smoke explosion on a tremendous scale going on up there.


Greg Brady -- E.M.T. (E.M.S.) [Battalion 6]
We were standing underneath and Captain Stone was speaking again. We heard -- I heard 3 loud explosions. I look up and the north tower is coming down now, 1 World Trade Center.


Timothy Burke -- Firefigter (F.D.N.Y.) [Engine 202]
But it seemed like I was going oh, my god, there is a secondary device because the way the building popped. I thought it was an explosion.


Ed Cachia -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Engine 53]
we originally had thought there was like an internal detonation explosives because it went in succession, boom, boom, boom, boom, and then the tower came down.


Frank Campagna -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Ladder 11]
You see three explosions and then the whole thing coming down.


Craig Carlsen -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Ladder 8]
... you just heard explosions coming from building two, the south tower. It seemed like it took forever, but there were about ten explosions. At the time I didn't realize what it was.


Jason Charles -- E.M.T. (E.M.S.)
... and then I heard an explosion from up, from up above, and I froze and I was like, oh, s___, I'm dead because I thought the debris was going to hit me in the head and that was it.
...
I look over my shoulder and I says, oh, s___, and then I turned around and looked up and that's when I saw the tower coming down.


Frank Cruthers -- Chief (F.D.N.Y.) [Citywide Tour Commander]
.. there was what appeared to be at first an explosion. It appeared at the very top, simultaneously from all four sides, materials shot out horizontally. And then there seemed to be a momentary delay before you could see the beginning of the collapse.


Kevin Darnowski -- Paramedic (E.M.S.)
I heard three explosions, and then we heard like groaning and grinding, and tower two started to come down.


Dominick Derubbio -- Battalion Chief (F.D.N.Y.) [Division 8]
It was weird how it started to come down. It looked like it was a timed explosion ...


Karin Deshore -- Captain (E.M.S.)
Somewhere around the middle of the World Trade Center, there was this orange and red flash coming out. Initially it was just one flash. Then this flash just kept popping all the way around the building and that building had started to explode.


Brian Dixon -- Battalion Chief (F.D.N.Y.)
... the lowest floor of fire in the south tower actually looked like someone had planted explosives around it because the whole bottom I could see -- I could see two sides of it and the other side -- it just looked like that floor blew out. I looked up and you could actually see everything blew out on the one floor. I thought, geez, this looks like an explosion up there, it blew out.


Michael Donovan -- Captain (F.D.N.Y.)
I thought there had been an explosion or a bomb that they had blown up there.


James Drury -- Assistant Commissioner (F.D.N.Y.)
I should say that people in the street and myself included thought that the roar was so loud that the explosive - bombs were going off inside the building.


Thomas Fitzpatrick -- Deputy Commissioner for Administration (F.D.N.Y.)
Some people thought it was an explosion. I don't think I remember that. I remember seeing it, it looked like sparkling around one specific layer of the building.
...
My initial reaction was that this was exactly the way it looks when they show you those implosions on TV.


Gary Gates -- Lieutenant (F.D.N.Y.)
So the explosion, what I realized later, had to be the start of the collapse. It was the way the building appeared to blowout from both sides. I'm looking at the face of it, and all we see is the two sides of the building just blowing out and coming apart like this, as I said, like the top of a volcano.


Kevin Gorman -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Ladder 22]
... I thought that when I looked in the direction of the Trade Center before it came down, before No. 2 came down, that I saw low-level flashes.


Gregg Hansson -- Lieutenant (F.D.N.Y.)
Then a large explosion took place. In my estimation that was the tower coming down, but at that time I did not know what that was. I thought some type of bomb had gone off.


Timothy Julian -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Ladder 118]
You know, and I just heard like an explosion and then cracking type of noise, and then it sounded like a freight train, rumbling and picking up speed, and I remember I looked up, and I saw it coming down.


John Malley -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Ladder 22]
I felt the rumbling, and then I felt the force coming at me. I was like, what the hell is that? In my mind it was a bomb going off.


James McKinley -- E.M.T. (E.M.S.)
After that I heard this huge explosion, I thought it was a boiler exploding or something. Next thing you know this huge cloud of smoke is coming at us, so we're running.


Joseph Meola -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Engine 91]
As we are looking up at the building, what I saw was, it looked like the building was blowing out on all four sides. We actually heard the pops. Didn't realize it was the falling -- you know, you heard the pops of the building. You thought it was just blowing out.


Kevin Murray -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Ladder 18]
When the tower started -- there was a big explosion that I heard and someone screamed that it was coming down and I looked away and I saw all the windows domino


Janice Olszewski -- Captain (E.M.S.)
I thought it was an explosion or a secondary device, a bomb, the jet -- plane exploding, whatever.


Daniel Rivera -- Paramedic (E.M.S.) [Battalion 31]
At first I thought it was -- do you ever see professional demolition where they set the charges on certain floors and then you hear "Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop"? That's exactly what -- because I thought it was that.


Angel Rivera -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.)
That's when hell came down. It was like a huge, enormous explosion. I still can hear it. Everything shook.


Kennith Rogers -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.)
I figured it was a bomb, because it looked like a synchronized deliberate kind of thing. I was there in '93.


Patrick Scaringello -- Lieutenant (E.M.S.)
I started to treat patients on my own when I heard the explosion from up above.


Mark Steffens -- Division Chief (E.M.S.)
Then there was another it sounded like an explosion and heavy white powder ...


John Sudnik -- Battalion Chief (F.D.N.Y.)
Then we heard a loud explosion or what sounded like a loud explosion and looked up and I saw tower two start coming down. Crazy.


Jay Swithers -- Captain (E.M.S.)
I took a quick glance at the building and while I didn't see it falling, I saw a large section of it blasting out, which led me to believe it was just an explosion. I thought it was a secondary device, but I knew that we had to go.


David Timothy -- E.M.T. (E.M.S.)
The next thing I knew, you started hearing more explosions. I guess this is when the second tower started coming down.


Albert Turi -- Deputy Assistant Chief (F.D.N.Y.)
And as my eyes traveled up the building, and I was looking at the south tower, somewhere about halfway up, my initial reaction was there was a secondary explosion, and the entire floor area, a ring right around the building blew out.


Thomas Turilli -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.)
... it almost actually that day sounded like bombs going off, like boom, boom, boom, like seven or eight, and then just a huge wind gust just came.


Stephen Viola -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.)
... that's when the south tower collapsed, and it sounded like a bunch of explosions.


William Wall -- Lieutenant (F.D.N.Y.) [Engine 47]
At that time, we heard an explosion. We looked up and the building was coming down right on top of us ...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
References

1. The Sept. 11 Records, New York Times,

 

[pt1gard]

fatdaddycool

fatdaddycool

I had an aunt and her two year old twins burn to death on that very fuhkin airplane you heartless fuhkin creep so say it one more time mother fuhker......

im searching that flight 77 manifest and your claim doesnt add up:shrug: am i missing something


AMERICAN AIRLINES FLIGHT 77
American Airlines Flight 77, from Washington to Los Angeles, crashed into the Pentagon with 64 people aboard.

CREW

Charles Burlingame of Herndon, Virginia, was the plane's captain. He is survived by a wife, a daughter and a grandson. He had more than 20 years of experience flying with American Airlines and was a former U.S. Navy pilot.

David Charlebois, who lived in Washington's Dupont Circle neighborhood, was the first officer on the flight. "He was handsome and happy and very centered," his neighbor Travis White, told The Washington Post. "His life was the kind of life I wanted to have some day."

Michele Heidenberger of Chevy Chase, Maryland, was a flight attendant for 30 years. She left behind a husband, a pilot, and a daughter and son.

Flight attendant Jennifer Lewis, 38, of Culpeper, Virginia, was the wife of flight attendant Kenneth Lewis.

Flight attendant Kenneth Lewis, 49, of Culpeper, Virginia, was the husband of flight attendant Jennifer Lewis.

Renee May, 39, of Baltimore, Maryland, was a flight attendant.





PASSENGERS

Paul Ambrose, 32, of Washington, was a physician who worked with the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and the surgeon general to address racial and ethnic disparities in health. A 1995 graduate of Marshall University School of Medicine, Ambrose last year was named the Luther Terry Fellow of the Association of Teachers of Preventative Medicine.

Yeneneh Betru, 35, was from Burbank, California.

M.J. Booth

Bernard Brown, 11, was a student at Leckie Elementary School in Washington. He was embarking on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Suzanne Calley, 42, of San Martin, California, was an employee of Cisco Systems Inc.

William Caswell

Sarah Clark, 65, of Columbia, Maryland, was a sixth-grade teacher at Backus Middle School in Washington. She was accompanying a student on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Asia Cottom, 11, was a student at Backus Middle School in Washington. Asia was embarking on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

James Debeuneure, 58, of Upper Marlboro, Maryland, was a fifth-grade teacher at Ketcham Elementary School in Washington. He was accompanying a student on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Rodney Dickens, 11, was a student at Leckie Elementary School in Washington. He was embarking on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Eddie Dillard

Charles Droz

Barbara Edwards, 58, of Las Vegas, Nevada, was a teacher at Palo Verde High School in Las Vegas.

Charles S. Falkenberg, 45, of University Park, Maryland, was the director of research at ECOlogic Corp., a software engineering firm. He worked on data systems for NASA and also developed data systems for the study of global and regional environmental issues. Falkenburg was traveling with his wife, Leslie Whittingham, and their two daughters, Zoe, 8, and Dana, 3.

Zoe Falkenberg, 8, of University Park, Maryland, was the daughter of Charles Falkenberg and Leslie Whittingham.

Dana Falkenberg, 3, of University Park, Maryland, was the daughter of Charles Falkenberg and Leslie Whittingham.

Joe Ferguson was the director of the National Geographic Society's geography education outreach program in Washington. He was accompanying a group of students and teachers on an educational trip to the Channel Islands in California. A Mississippi native, he joined the society in 1987. "Joe Feguson's final hours at the Geographic reveal the depth of his commitment to one of the things he really loved," said John Fahey Jr., the society's president. "Joe was here at the office until late Monday evening preparing for this trip. It was his goal to make this trip perfect in every way."

Wilson "Bud" Flagg of Millwood, Virginia, was a retired Navy admiral and retired American Airlines pilot.

Dee Flagg

Richard Gabriel

Ian Gray, 55, of Washington was the president of a health-care consulting firm.

Stanley Hall, 68, was from Rancho Palos Verdes, California.

Bryan Jack, 48, of Alexandria, Virginia, was a senior executive at the Defense Department.

Steven D. "Jake" Jacoby, 43, of Alexandria, Virginia, was the chief operating officer of Metrocall Inc., a wireless data and messaging company.

Ann Judge, 49, of Virginia was the travel office manager for the National Geographic Society. She was accompanying a group of students and teachers on an educational trip to the Channel Islands in California. Society President John Fahey Jr. said one of his fondest memories of Judge is a voice mail she and a colleague once left him while they were rafting the Monkey River in Belize. "This was quintessential Ann -- living life to the fullest and wanting to share it with others," he said.

Chandler Keller, 29, was a Boeing propulsion engineer from El Segundo, California.

Yvonne Kennedy

Norma Khan, 45, from Reston, Virginia was a nonprofit organization manager.

Karen A. Kincaid, 40, was a lawyer with the Washington firm of Wiley Rein & Fielding. She joined the firm in 1993 and was part of the its telecommunications practice. She was married to Peter Batacan.

Norma Langsteuerle

Dong Lee

Dora Menchaca, 45, of Santa Monica, California, was the associate director of clinical research for a biotech firm.

Christopher Newton, 38, of Anaheim, California, was president and chief executive officer of Work-Life Benefits, a consultation and referral service. He was married and had two children. Newton was on his way back to Orange County to retrieve his family's yellow Labrador, who had been left behind until they could settle into their new home in Arlington, Virginia.

Barbara Olson, 45, was a conservative commentator who often appeared on CNN and was married to U.S. Solicitor General Theodore Olson. She twice called her husband as the plane was being hijacked and described some details, including that the attackers were armed with knives. She had planned to take a different flight, but she changed it at the last minute so that she could be with her husband on his birthday. She worked as an investigator for the House Government Reform Committee in the mid-1990s and later worked on the staff of Senate Minority Whip Don Nickles.

Ruben Ornedo, 39, of Los Angeles, California, was a Boeing propulsion engineer.

Robert Penniger, 63, of Poway, California, was an electrical engineer with BAE Systems.

Lisa Raines, 42, was senior vice president for government relations at the Washington office of Genzyme, a biotechnology firm. She was from Great Falls, Virginia, and was married to Stephen Push. She worked with the U.S. Food and Drug Administration on developing a new policy governing cellular therapies, announced in 1997. She also worked on other major health-care legislation.

Todd Reuben, 40, of Potomac, Maryland, was a tax and business lawyer.

John Sammartino

Diane Simmons married to George Simmons.

George Simmons

Mari-Rae Sopper of Santa Barbara, California, was a women's gymnastics coach at the University of California at Santa Barbara. She had just gotten the post August 31 and was making the trip to California to start work.

Bob Speisman, 47, was from Irvington, New York.

Hilda Taylor was a sixth-grade teacher at Leckie Elementary School in Washington. She was accompanying a student on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Leonard Taylor was from Reston, Virginia.

Leslie A. Whittington, 45, was from University Park, Maryland. The professor of public policy at Georgetown University in Washington was traveling with her husband, Charles Falkenberg, 45, and their two daughters, Zoe, 8, and Dana, 3. They were traveling to Los Angeles to catch a connection to Australia. Whittington had been named a visiting fellow at Australian National University in Canberra.

John Yamnicky, 71, was from Waldorf, Maryland.

Vicki Yancey

Shuyin Yang

Yuguag Zheng

 

[Jabberwocky]

you have done some homework pt...I have a hard time with this one, but I appreciate the info.

 

[pt1gard]

thanx jabberwocky ... and 6'5 if you are still reading, that clown held the tail section, he must be hercules ...


theres no way possible flight 77, a 757 could fly perpendicular 5'-10' off the ground at 400 plus mph without losing its integrity and not scorch the pentagon lawn with its motors--it was later described as a putting green ... pilots will tell you keeping it steady at 60' off the ground is a tough row to hoe ... so how did AA 77 get so low and plow through 4 rings if it was flying close to level ... if it was coming down at an angle it wouldve done what flight 93 did, go straight into ground ... and also where was the tremendous fire damage like the wtc's planes caused ... you can look online and find pristine computers, chairs, even books, on the ajacent floors after the wall collapsed later on--they are not even charred .... and wasnt this a crime scene, why was everything scooped up and not analyzed or released to sate the publics curiosity for the truth....http://www.911review.com/coverup/pentagon.html#meaning


ironically i was a fish like most of us until this summer, then i started reading ... this stuff goes far beyond what happened on 9/11... that was only the vestige of rooted evils that have gone on for decades ...

try googling MENA ARKANSAS and read about the railroad track murders ... follow all that back to ollie north--aka john cathey--and his pilots, berry seal and terry reed, nicaragua arms traded for cocaine, clinton, witnesses murdered left and right, arky banks getting fat on bonds, fahmy mallack, the mengele coroner, who clinton gave a 14k raise and then a new job at 70k once bill went to the white house.... then read about the truth behind vincent foster's suicide, a lefty who shot himself right handed and then hardly bled from his entry wound

we truly have our heads in the sand... keep delving if you dont want to be another sap who believes the kean commission and beyond. the Net has the truth out there if we dare look.

 

[pt1gard]

fatdaddycool

fatdaddycool

I am sick of mother fuhkers like you, yea I said you, that bleed this country for every fuhking thing they can get and then point the finger at everything and say AHA! acting on the behalf of their own misconstrued idea of what the fuhking truth is and the truth is you don't have shit except speculation so shut the fuhk up jag off............got it...........move this shit somewhere else I have fuhkin had it with your whining ass bullshit, Clear enough for you asshat, I had an aunt and her two year old twins burn to death on that very fuhkin airplane you heartless fuhkin creep so say it one more time mother fuhker......I dare ya I double fuhkin dare you. --FDCOOL--


in case they were on the ground at the pentagon... heres those poor souls that perished

Spc. Craig Amundson, 28, Fort Belvoir, Va.*
Melissa Rose Barnes, 27, Redlands, Calif.*
(Retired) Master Sgt. Max Beilke, 69, Laurel, Md.*
Kris Romeo Bishundat, 23, Waldorf, Md.*
Carrie Blagburn, 48, Temple Hills, Md.*
Lt. Col. Canfield D. Boone, 54, Clifton, Va.*
Donna Bowen, 42, Waldorf, Md.*
Allen Boyle, 30, Fredericksburg, Va.*
Christopher Lee Burford, 23, Hubert, N.C.*
Daniel Martin Caballero, 21, Houston, Texas*
Sgt. 1st Class Jose Orlando Calderon-Olmedo, 44, Annandale, Va.*
Angelene C. Carter, 51, Forrestville, Md.*
Sharon Carver, 38, Waldorf, Md.*
John J. Chada, 55, Manassas, Va.*
Rosa Maria (Rosemary) Chapa, 64, Springfield, Va.*
Julian Cooper, 39, Springdale, Md.*
Lt. Cmdr. Eric Allen Cranford, 32, Drexel, N.C.
Ada M. Davis, 57, Camp Springs, Md.*
Capt. Gerald Francis Deconto, 44, Sandwich, Mass.*
Lt. Col. Jerry Don Dickerson, 41, Durant, Miss.*
Johnnie Doctor, 32, Jacksonville, Fla.*
Capt. Robert Edward Dolan, 43, Alexandria, Va.*
Cmdr. William Howard Donovan, 37, Nunda, N.Y.*
Cmdr. Patrick S. Dunn, 39, Springfield, Va.*
Edward Thomas Earhart, 26, Salt Lick, Ky.*
Lt. Cmdr. Robert Randolph Elseth, 37, Vestal, N.Y.*
Jamie Lynn Fallon, 23, Woodbridge, Va.*
Amelia V. Fields, 36, Dumfries, Va.*
Gerald P. Fisher, 57, Potomac, Md.*
Matthew Michael Flocco, 21, Newark, Del.*
Sandra N. Foster, 41, Clinton, Md.*
Capt. Lawrence Daniel Getzfred, 57, Elgin, Neb.*
Cortz Ghee, 54, Reisterstown, Md.*
Brenda C. Gibson, 59, Falls Church, Va.*
Ron Golinski, 60, Columbia, Md.*
Diane M. Hale-McKinzy, 38, Alexandria, Va.*
Carolyn B. Halmon, 49, Washington, D.C.*
Sheila Hein, 51, University Park, Md.*
Ronald John Hemenway, 37, Shawnee, Kan.*
Maj. Wallace Cole Hogan, 40, Fla.*
Jimmie Ira Holley, 54, Lanham, Md.*
Angela Houtz, 27, La Plata, Md.*
Brady K. Howell, 26, Arlington, Va.*
Peggie Hurt, 36, Crewe, Va.*
Lt. Col. Stephen Neil Hyland, 45, Burke, Va.*
Robert J. Hymel, 55, Woodbridge, Va.*
Sgt. Maj. Lacey B. Ivory, 43, Woodbridge, Va.*
Lt. Col. Dennis M. Johnson, 48, Port Edwards, Wis.*
Judith Jones, 53, Woodbridge, Va.*
Brenda Kegler, 49, Washington, D.C.*
Lt. Michael Scott Lamana, 31, Baton Rouge, La.*
David W. Laychak, 40, Manassas, Va.*
Samantha Lightbourn-Allen, 36, Hillside, Md.*
Maj. Steve Long, 39, Ga.*
James Lynch, 55, Manassas, Va.*
Terence M. Lynch, 49, Alexandria, Va.*
Nehamon Lyons, 30, Mobile, Ala.*
Shelley A. Marshall, 37, Marbury, Md.*
Teresa Martin, 45, Stafford, Va.*
Ada L. Mason, 50, Springfield, Va.*
Lt. Col. Dean E. Mattson, 57, Calif.*
Lt. Gen. Timothy J. Maude, 53, Fort Myer, Va.*
Robert J. Maxwell, 53, Manassas, Va.*
Molly McKenzie, 38, Dale City, Va.*
Patricia E. (Patti) Mickley, 41, Springfield, Va.*
Maj. Ronald D. Milam, 33, Washington, D.C.*
Gerard (Jerry) P. Moran, 39, Upper Marlboro, Md.*
Odessa V. Morris, 54, Upper Marlboro, Md.*
Brian Anthony Moss, 34, Sperry, Okla.*
Ted Moy, 48, Silver Spring, Md.*
Lt. Cmdr. Patrick Jude Murphy, 38, Flossmoor, Ill.
Khang Nguyen, 41, Fairfax, Va.*
Michael Allen Noeth, 30, New York, N.Y.*
Diana Borrero de Padro, 55, Woodbridge, Va.*
Spc. Chin Sun Pak, 25, Lawton, Okla.*
Lt. Jonas Martin Panik, 26, Mingoville, Pa.*
Maj. Clifford L. Patterson, 33, Alexandria, Va.*
Lt. J.G. Darin Howard Pontell, 26, Columbia, Md.*
Scott Powell, 35, Silver Spring, Md.*
(Retired) Capt. Jack Punches, 51, Clifton, Va.*
Joseph John Pycior, 39, Carlstadt, N.J.*
Deborah Ramsaur, 45, Annandale, Va.*
Rhonda Rasmussen, 44, Woodbridge, Va.*
Marsha Dianah Ratchford, 34, Prichard, Ala.*
Martha Reszke, 36, Stafford, Va.*
Cecelia E. Richard, 41, Fort Washington, Md.*
Edward V. Rowenhorst, 32, Lake Ridge, Va.*
Judy Rowlett, 44, Woodbridge, Va.*
Robert E. Russell, 52, Oxon Hill, Md.*
William R. Ruth, 57, Mount Airy, Md.*
Charles E. Sabin, 54, Burke, Va.*
Marjorie C. Salamone, 53, Springfield, Va.*
Lt. Col. David M. Scales, 44, Cleveland, Ohio*
Cmdr. Robert Allan Schlegel, 38, Alexandria, Va.*
Janice Scott, 46, Springfield, Va.*
Michael L. Selves, 53, Fairfax, Va.*
Marian Serva, 47, Stafford, Va.*
Cmdr. Dan Frederic Shanower, 40, Naperville, Ill.*
Antoinette Sherman, 35, Forest Heights, Md.*
Don Simmons, 58, Dumfries, Va.*
Cheryle D. Sincock, 53, Dale City, Va.*
Gregg Harold Smallwood, 44, Overland Park, Kan.*
(Retired) Lt. Col. Gary F. Smith, 55, Alexandria, Va.*
Patricia J. Statz, 41, Takoma Park, Md.*
Edna L. Stephens, 53, Washington, D.C.*
Sgt. Maj. Larry Strickland, 52, Woodbridge, Va.*
Maj. Kip P. Taylor, 38, McLean, Va.*
Sandra C. Taylor, 50, Alexandria, Va.*
Karl W. Teepe, 57, Centreville, Va.*
Sgt. Tamara Thurman, 25, Brewton, Ala.*
Lt. Cmdr. Otis Vincent Tolbert, 38, Lemoore, Calif.*
Willie Q. Troy, 51, Aberdeen, Md.*
Lt. Cmdr. Ronald James Vauk, 37, Nampa, Idaho*
Lt. Col. Karen Wagner, 40, Houston, Texas*
Meta L. Waller, 60, Alexandria, Va.*
Staff Sgt. Maudlyn A. White, 38, St. Croix, Virgin Islands*
Sandra L. White, 44, Dumfries, Va.*
Ernest M. Willcher, 62, North Potomac, Md.*
Lt. Cmdr. David Lucian Williams, 32, Newport, Ore.*
Maj. Dwayne Williams, 40, Jacksonville, Ala.*
Marvin R. Woods, 57, Great Mills, Md.*
Kevin Wayne Yokum, 27, Lake Charles, La.*
Donald McArthur Young, 41, Roanoke, Va.*
Lisa L. Young, 36, Germantown, Md.*
Edmond Young, 22, Owings, Md.*


youre a certified nutjob, FDC, lying about losing loved ones when others tragically did ... and im sure your pal picked up crime scene wreckage at the pentagon too ... why dont you actually read some facts instead offering your blubbering curse rants...

im sure you have slinked away to your cuckoo's nest to accept outlets from big chief ...

amazing how people lie:scared

 

[pt1gard]

MORE INTERESTING INFO

MORE INTERESTING INFO

please prove me wrong here, just stumbled across this info ...


The 9-11 Passenger List Oddity
by Vincent Sammartino
As everyone who is involved in exposing the 9-11 cover-up knows, nothing concerning 9-11 is as it seems. Whether it's the magic jet that our government told us crashed into the Pentagon, the obvious missing jet at Shanksville (Flight 93), the three perfect demolitions of the World Trade Center towers, or the fact that Arab hijackers are still alive and their supposed ring leader Osama bin Laden has the ability to change his facial features at will. Nothing, I repeat, nothing about the government/controlled media version of 9-11 makes any sense.

So, let's get one thing straight and out of the way right now. There are no such things as physical inconsistencies in the world we live in. We can always depend on the laws of physics to be consistent and unchanging. Coincidence is a self-contained human concept; and the real world - the atoms, molecules and planets that whiz around - don't care if you understand them. Likewise, they aren't concerned if their movement happens to favor you or not. I say this because, as Victor Thorn and Lisa Guliani know (WING TV), this is the key to understanding what is real and what is contrived.

With that said, let me go back to sometime in February, 2004. At that time I had pretty much figured out that what had happened at the Pentagon and the WTC was a lie. I was still toying with the idea, though, that maybe (just maybe) our government had shot down Flight 93 in Shanksville in order to protect us from the real terrorists.

Then a few websites started to pop-up showing videos of what appeared to be a "pod" under Flight 175, along with an unexplained flash that happened just before the jet hit the South Tower. To me, this was just as damning as the Pentagon and the WTC collapses. There is no good reason for us to be seeing what we saw if the official government story was true. Think about this point for a minute. If what we saw was just an anomaly, then there must be millions of photos/videos of 757s taking off and landing at airports all over the world that look JUST LIKE THAT! If anybody has any jet photo anomalies they would like to share with us, please send them to Victor and Lisa at WING TV so we can clear this stuff up.

Which brings me to Ellen Mariani: she?s the woman who lost her husband Louis on Flight 175 that crashed into the South Tower on 9-11. With the help of a lawyer named Phil Berg, she filed a lawsuit against President Bush and company under the RICO act. Also, she refused to take the hush money that was offered to her under the 9-11 Victims Compensation fund.

In addition, I had just discovered Black Op Radio earlier in the year and found an interesting show in their archives (# 156) on which Ellen and Mr. Berg appeared as guests. This may be the single biggest point concerning 9-11, and hopefully the last nail in the coffin of our government's lies. During this broadcast, Mrs. Mariani said that she was the only relative of all the passengers that died on Flight 175 that crashed into the South Tower. Her lawyer, Phil Berg, repeated this statement.

I listened to this show over and over again and couldn't believe what she had just said. Everything came together at this point. That?s when it dawned on me that not only had our government lied about the physics of 9-11; they may very well have taken it one step farther by faking the number of people that died that day. I believed what she and Mr. Berg had just said. Nothing about 9-11 made any sense. Why should it start now?

Not knowing then what I know now, Ellen and Phil believed that for some reason the government was holding back the names of the people that had died on Flight 175. She had tried to get in touch with the relatives of other family members, but to no avail. You see, she and her lawyer believed, just like most other people believe, that four jets had been hijacked by Arab terrorists and crashed into buildings and into the ground at Shanksville. I, on the other hand, had already swept those lies aside.

Their statement also gave credence to the Fox News reporter who said that the jet which crashed into the South Tower had no windows. Hey, this jet appeared to have a "pod" under it anyway. The pieces of the puzzle were starting to fit.

Now, we come to most interesting stuff - the Social Security Death Index, and thanks to Victor Thorn's idea, the September 11th Victim?s Compensation Fund. After all, it's one thing to say that the flight lists are not on the up and up, but it's another thing to prove it.

The Social Security Death Index (SSDI) (Social Security Death Index) is a privately-owned website that is not affiliated with Social Security. It boasts an accuracy rate of about 83% (e-mail them any questions you may have). Anyway, to check its reliability, I inputted the names of people I knew that had died in my family, along with friends and neighbors. Being a true skeptic, I had no way of knowing whether they were telling the truth or not. With the exception of a cousin, I found everyone I was looking for. (Be sure you have the person's true first name - they may not be listed by the state they last lived in, but can be found in the state where their social security number was issued.) By all means try it yourself.

Which brings us to the 9-11 Victims Compensation Fund (also known as the Shut Up and Take the Money Fund), which most of you have heard about.

9-11 Victims Compensation Fund

This is where our government opened up the Treasury and gave family members of those who lost their lives that day lots of money. In return, these families were basically told to shut up about anything else concerning 9-11. (Considering all the lies surrounding this horrific event, you can see why.)

At this point there is one thing we should never forget, and that is how powerful the notion of human greed is. Remember this concept as you read the number of victims whose family members sought compensation.

The names of the victims can be found on the CNN website.

Here are the results:

Flight 11: of the 92 people who are listed as dying on this flight, only 20 are listed in the SSDI (22%)

Of these 20 people, only three are on the 9-11 Compensation Fund list:

Judy Larocque
Laurie Neira
Candace Lee Williams

=======================================

Flight 77: of the 64 people who are listed as dying on this flight, only 14 are listed in the SSDI (22%)

Of these 64 people, only five on the 9-11 Compensation Fund list:

William Caswell
Eddie Dillard
Ian Gray
John Sammartino
Leonard Taylor

=======================================

Flight 175: of the 65 people who are listed as dying on this flight, only 18 are listed in the SSDI (28%)

Of these 65 people, only three are on the 9-11 Compensation Fund list:

Michael C. Tarrou
Gloria Debarrera
Timothy Ward

=======================================

Flight 93: of the 45 people who are listed as dying on this flight, only 6 are listed in the SSDI (13%)

Of these 45 people, none are on the 9-11 Compensation Fund list:

No one

=======================================

Have you noticed anything strange yet? Of the passengers and crew of Flight 11, 77, 175 & 93, only 22%, 22%, 28%, 13% respectively are in the SSDI.

Remember human greed? Of the 266 people that we were told died on these jets, only 11 relatives applied for compensation. Can you believe that not a single relative from Flight 93 applied for compensation? I can't. Were all the relatives of the victims so rich that they weren't eligible to receive compensation? No, that's not it. (The minimum federal award was $250,000, and the average pay-out was about $1.8 million. The recipients only had to make agreement: they couldn?t sue the airlines.)

You should also know that most lawyers told their clients to take the money and run (which is what most lawyers would do - take the sure money). Ellen Mariani clearly elaborated on this point during her appearance on the radio show mentioned above.

Finally, during the past week, thanks to Lisa Guliani's insatiable quest for the truth, the 9-11 Victims Compensation Final Report has come to light.

9-11 Victims Compensation Final Report

Oddly, but consistent with everything concerning 9-11, the actual complete list of the people who benefited has been omitted from this report. Even without this, it does contain an interesting fact. According to the report, 98% of all the people who suffered a loss on 9-11 took the fund money. The average payment was $1.8 million.

But here's where it gets strange. According to the government, here are the number of people who accepted the compensation fund:

Out of a total of 92 people on Flight 11, only 65 accepted the 9-11 fund (71%)
Out of a total of 65 people on Flight 175, only 46 accepted the 9-11 fund (71%)
Out of a total of 64 people on Flight 77, only 33 accepted the 9-11 fund (52%)
Out of a total of 45 people on Flight 93, only 25 accepted the 9-11 fund (56%)

Does any of this seem a little odd to you? Or is it possible that not only were the jets on 9-11 magical, but their passengers as well?

So there you have it; yet another glaring 9-11 inconsistency - just maybe the biggest of them all?

Skeptically yours,
Vincent Sammartino

 

[marine]

You lost any semblance of credibility with this article after I read this statement
During this broadcast, Mrs. Mariani said that she was the only relative of all the passengers that died on Flight 175 that crashed into the South Tower.

The Social Security Death Index (SSDI) (Social Security Death Index) is a privately-owned website that is not affiliated with Social Security. It boasts an accuracy rate of about 83%
Flight 77: of the 64 people who are listed as dying on this flight, only 14 are listed in the SSDI (22%)
Flight 77: of the 64 people who are listed as dying on this flight, only 14 are listed in the SSDI (22%)

Now go google the world "Variance" and tell me what it means.

 

[pt1gard]

marine,

im not saying anything other than 'prove me wrong' b/c im out searching for answers, i dont say i have them all ... unlike many i have an open mind for empirical research and dont digest lies easily ... so you are saying there is a list of people that are proven dead and getting this money ... i would like to see that list or least talk to or see them in some published article ...

and like all info im trying to gather, bc one thing may or might not be true, doesnt diminish the others ... i.e. can you tell me how a 757 flies 5' off the ground with a pilot that couldnt fly a cessna while the best pilots in the world said they couldnt have done what hani hanjour did ...

now, what semblance of credibilty of the kean commission can we swallow there:shrug: :nono:

im curious, have you read any books on the inconsistentcies on 9/11 ... if so im taking it you dont find any problems with the 'official story'

 

[The Sponge]

youre a certified nutjob, FDC, lying about losing loved ones when others tragically did ... and im sure your pal picked up crime scene wreckage at the pentagon too ... why dont you actually read some facts instead offering your blubbering curse rants...

im sure you have slinked away to your cuckoo's nest to accept outlets from big chief ...

amazing how people lie:scared[/QUOTE]

Incredible i see he threaten you also. You would be number 11 on his list. It wont be the first time he got caught lying this week.

 

[pt1gard]

the guy is hysterical, for all his big time education and women etc, he sure has a lotta time to devote to mj threads in the middle of the day ... im not boasting that kinda street cred hehe

 

[The Judge]

B. do you think the jets fuel couldve possibly melted the towers that fast ...

I have addressed this subject in detail in a previous thread:

http://www.madjacksports.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1676202&postcount=29

http://www.madjacksports.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1676334&postcount=34

http://www.madjacksports.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1676887&postcount=57

 

[marine]

I am ashamed for ever opening this thread and feeding into this garbage

 

[pt1gard]

thanks, judge, googled tom w. and he doesnt appear anywhere, not saying he doesnt, but must not be as well known as byu's steven jones, who says theres thermite in the piece of the debris he was given from wtc and doesnt believe the official story... funny how they shipped out every scrap to china w/o allowing any forensics on the possibility how the steel columns were sheered like only explosives could manufacture ...


maybe youd like to read his take ...

BYU?s Dr. Steven Jones Blows the Roof off a Utah Auditorium

by Philip Sherman Gordon

On Wednesday, February 1, a quiet, ?churchy-looking? gentleman in a white shirt and tie walked into a packed auditorium on the campus of Utah Valley State College and electrified the room like a rock star. The 150-seat auditorium was filled to capacity, with every seat occupied, and people sitting in the aisles from the stage floor to the back of the room. Video cameras on tripods lined the back row. Two documentary-film crews were in attendance, in addition to the school?s camera crew, and various independent journalists. Seven ?spill-over? rooms, with seating for 40-50 each, were also filled to capacity. On this very conservative campus (in the most conservative county in the most conservative state in the union), where community leaders pulled out all the stops in 2004 to prevent Michael Moore from speaking as part of his anti-Bush, pro-Kerry ?Slacker Uprising Tour,? Dr. Steven Jones, this pious professor from the Mormon Church-owned Brigham Young University, calmly, gently, gave a simple physics lesson on the collapse of the World Trade Center buildings, the implications of which awed the audience with a sense of world-historical significance, and implied an indictment of the present administration so utterly devastating that it made Moore?s Fahrenheit 9/11 look like a Bush apologia.

Dr. Jones argues that the physics behind the government?s explanation of the collapse of the Twin Towers on September 11 do not make sense, and that a better (and perhaps only) explanation for their collapse was that they were demolished, exactly the way structural engineers bring down large buildings, by pre-positioned explosive devices set off in precise sequences. He argues that the 650 degree Celsius temperature of burning jet fuel would not have been hot enough to even bend the steel girders of the WTC Towers, let alone to melt or evaporate them, as recovered beams indicate. And even if it was hot enough to evaporate the steel, the towers should not have collapsed as they did, pancaking so perfectly into their own footprints. On the rare times when such structures have failed (always due to earthquakes), they have toppled over sideways. The towers would have had to have been perfectly sliced, at every point along a horizontal plane at exactly the same instant, for something even resembling a pancaking effect to occur. And even if they did somehow pancake perfectly into their own footprints due to a structural failure, they would not have done it in the time it took for them to collapse, falling at essentially the speed of an apple dropped from the top of one of the towers, with nothing between it and the ground but thin air. The steel and concrete in the floors that collapsed should have taken some measurable time to break, and thus slowed the collapse somewhat as it unfolded. And even if it did collapse, at super speed, phwack phwack phwack, floor by floor, as fast as an apple falling through the air, impelled by the weight of the decapitated structure above it, its solid steel frame severed like a head by a flaming guillotine, that does not explain the molten steel seen at the Ground Zero clean-up site many days after the event. What could have caused such heat? asked Professor Jones.

And on it went, point by point, for almost two hours. Nothing about the physics of ?what we know? about 9/11 seemed to add up. And all that?s not to mention the mysterious collapse of the forgotten WTC-7, the third steel-frame building that imploded due to fire, not only that day, but in the history of architectural design--the building that was not hit by a plane, that was surrounded by other buildings equally impacted but structurally undamaged by the collapse of the towers, that, with no jet fuel or violent impact, but allegedly due to a small number of scattered ?debris fires,? collapsed, pancaking perfectly into its own footprint, looking exactly like video images of buildings being demolished by pre-positioned explosive devices. Playing the one available video of WTC-7 collapsing at slow speed, Dr. Jones used his laser pointer to indicate the explosive ?squibs? clearly seen shooting their way up the sides of the building as it collapsed from the top center down. He showed still images of similar micro-explosions on the sides of the Twin Towers, with steel beams clearly visible, ejected out of the sides of the buildings, ahead of the dust, blown out before the above portions collapsed.

It is a devastating presentation, and one could feel the disequilibrium of 150 minds reeling at once. The defining moment of contemporary American experience suddenly lost its definition. What is the meaning of 9/11? What really happened that day? If these things are true, the implications clearly point to some kind of ?inside job? involving the government of the United States of America. (The Department of Defense, the FBI, and the CIA all had offices in the mysteriously collapsed WTC-7. Is it reasonable that outside terrorists could have infiltrated that building and filled it with explosives? ) If the WTC was brought down by pre-positioned explosive devices, somehow facilitated and covered up by the government, it would be the most audacious conspiracy in human history. When before have so many people been so spectacularly bamboozled, with so much death and destruction, and such massive implications for geo-politics? Never, that?s when.

And that is the problem Dr. Jones is facing with his research. People have knee-jerk reactions to ?conspiracy theories,? at least to the ones that do not make it into their established and trusted news outlets. And the mainstream media, so far, despite a blip or two in the New York Times, is taking a pass on this story. Yes, my skeptical friends believe that the Bush administration cynically smeared the war records of both John Kerry and John McCain during the 2000 presidential election through the use of shill agencies. Yes, they believe there was suppression of black voters in Florida, and other schemes to cheat their way into the White House in the 2000 election. Yes, they believe the administration conspired to rig the intelligence they used to justify their invasion of Iraq. Yes, if they are regular readers of The New Yorker, they believe that the election fraud was worse in 2004, with rigged ballot machines, in Ohio in particular, being used to great effect. And, yes, they believe in massive wrong-doing and cover-up regarding October Surprise and the Iran/Contra affair, as well as the CIA-orchestrated overthrows of democracies in Chile and Iran, to name only two well-known examples. But no, they don?t believe in conspiracy theories.

These are hardcore leftists who refuse to even entertain the question of whether science supports the conclusion that the planes brought the towers down. ?Too many people would have to know about it for them to get away with it,? one friend said. ?They?re not that smart,? said another. ?It?s just not plausible,? said a third. The issues raised by Professor Jones are not breaking along standard political fissures. People?s relative amounts of skepticism and credulity, rather than their political affiliations, seem to determine their openness to giving the professor?s analysis a hearing. Jones himself claims to have been a lifelong Republican, but now affiliates with no political party. The audience Wednesday night was definitely not the usual suspects of progressive professors and pierced and tattooed activists and students who regularly gather to share criticism of the President, although there were a few of those, too. Mostly, they looked like a cross-section of average middle-Americans. But by the end of the evening, it is no exaggeration to say that most had become political radicals, not of the left and the right, but of the right and the wrong.

If Dr. Jones?s work ever breaks into the mainstream media, and the rest of the country reacts the way the Utah County audience reacted, traditional political divisions will evaporate like steel beams exploded with thermite, and the whole lot of them, the Democrats and the Republicans, will be swept away, along with the military-industrial complex that has apparently managed to subvert the constitution of these United States and to con the American public, mesmerized by the shock of 9/11 and hypnotized by spell-binding incantations of freedom and patriotism, into going along with their mad plans for world domination.

Physics Professor Steven Jones Packs Lecture Hall and Overflow Rooms
Huge Crowd Hears of 9/11 Big Lie, WTC Controlled Demolition

Communications Professor Philip Gordon will be writing a story on the talk for MUJCA-NET. Look for it to be up in a few days at http://mujca.com

http://www.gnn.tv/B12675 (great pictures!)
http://www.heraldextra.com/content/view/163875/3/

Questions remain from 9/11 report, professor says
ANNA CHANG-YEN - Daily Herald

A BYU physics professor speaking on Wednesday night implied a government cover-up of what really happened on Sept. 11, 2001, and cast doubt on the blame placed on Osama bin Laden.

Professor Steven E. Jones suggested before the attacks the Bush administration was seeking a way to increase military spending and invade Iraq. The ensuing attacks on Iraq and Afghanistan have created most of Muslims' disdain for America, he said.

He spoke at Utah Valley State College to a packed lecture room, and by video to adjacent overflow rooms, sponsored by the Center for the Study of Ethics.

Center director David Keller said, "The collapse of the World Trade Center buildings illustrates a strange convergence of physics, engineering, ethics and politics."
(More at: http://www.heraldextra.com/content/view/163875/3/)

 

[pt1gard]

marine, if the planes were flown that low and knocked those poles down, are you with me, why werent they destroyed/mutilated ... check the flight simulators/recordings; the supposed height of the 757 approaching the pentagon was about 200' feet higher than possible to make the hit where it did ... ive heard real pilots say they couldnt have hit the wtc on the first try let alone the impossible shot of the pentagon

please, marine, go read some books and you will answer your questions ... im sure you are a good guy, but i can see you havent read anything in depth ... start with the next pearl harbor its a 160 pages, and i challenge you to come back here and say it doesnt add up ...

i read both sides of everything i can find and see where the most truth seems to be, try it, it might surprise you.... it did me

thanx
gregg

 

[ImFeklhr]

I find a lot of the conspiracy theories interesting!

But, one problem I have with the firefighters initial reactions... do they, or anybody else know what a collapsing skyscraper really should sound like?

What if that is just how they sound when they are falling or burning?

Eye-witness accounts, in situations like that, have to be taken with a few grains of salt. Sights and sounds can definitely trick the brain, especially in stressful situations.

 

[The Sponge]

Pt i was wondering now that we know that if you blast a plain thru a building especially close to the top it will come crumbling down like it was emplodded, wouldn't you save money by just getting a shitty plane and fuel it up, instead of paying all that labor to have 100 guys rigging it?
I will never forget about eight carpenters were called into and office and shown what was going on that day. This was a school. We saw it burning and all the sudden it collapsed. Every carpenter in that room said the same thing. "Boy that building fell like it was rigged with dynamite" How in the world could a building fall like that when it wasn't even burning that long? Now if it hit the bottom maybe i could believe it but it hit the top. You have an administration that stole an election to gain power, outted cia agents, fire judges who won't bow down to them, tried to sell our ports to the arabs, done nothing about our open borders, yet we are supposed to believe that they had nothing to do with this? They knew these planes were coming (august six memo) and did nothing about it. Wasn't Marvin Bush on the security board for the world trade centers? I wouldn't trust these snakes as far as ya can piss them.

 

[flapjack]

please prove me wrong here, just stumbled acors this info ...


The 9-11 Passenger List Oddity
by Vincent Sammartino
As everyone who is involved in exposing the 9-11 cover-up knows, nothing concerning 9-11 is as it seems. Whether it's the magic jet that our government told us crashed into the Pentagon, the obvious missing jet at Shanksville (Flight 93), the three perfect demolitions of the World Trade Center towers, or the fact that Arab hijackers are still alive and their supposed ring leader Osama bin Laden has the ability to change his facial features at will. Nothing, I repeat, nothing about the government/controlled media version of 9-11 makes any sense.

So, let's get one thing straight and out of the way right now. There are no such things as physical inconsistencies in the world we live in. We can always depend on the laws of physics to be consistent and unchanging. Coincidence is a self-contained human concept; and the real world - the atoms, molecules and planets that whiz around - don't care if you understand them. Likewise, they aren't concerned if their movement happens to favor you or not. I say this because, as Victor Thorn and Lisa Guliani know (WING TV), this is the key to understanding what is real and what is contrived.

With that said, let me go back to sometime in February, 2004. At that time I had pretty much figured out that what had happened at the Pentagon and the WTC was a lie. I was still toying with the idea, though, that maybe (just maybe) our government had shot down Flight 93 in Shanksville in order to protect us from the real terrorists.

Then a few websites started to pop-up showing videos of what appeared to be a "pod" under Flight 175, along with an unexplained flash that happened just before the jet hit the South Tower. To me, this was just as damning as the Pentagon and the WTC collapses. There is no good reason for us to be seeing what we saw if the official government story was true. Think about this point for a minute. If what we saw was just an anomaly, then there must be millions of photos/videos of 757s taking off and landing at airports all over the world that look JUST LIKE THAT! If anybody has any jet photo anomalies they would like to share with us, please send them to Victor and Lisa at WING TV so we can clear this stuff up.

Which brings me to Ellen Mariani: she?s the woman who lost her husband Louis on Flight 175 that crashed into the South Tower on 9-11. With the help of a lawyer named Phil Berg, she filed a lawsuit against President Bush and company under the RICO act. Also, she refused to take the hush money that was offered to her under the 9-11 Victims Compensation fund.

In addition, I had just discovered Black Op Radio earlier in the year and found an interesting show in their archives (# 156) on which Ellen and Mr. Berg appeared as guests. This may be the single biggest point concerning 9-11, and hopefully the last nail in the coffin of our government's lies. During this broadcast, Mrs. Mariani said that she was the only relative of all the passengers that died on Flight 175 that crashed into the South Tower. Her lawyer, Phil Berg, repeated this statement.

I listened to this show over and over again and couldn't believe what she had just said. Everything came together at this point. That?s when it dawned on me that not only had our government lied about the physics of 9-11; they may very well have taken it one step farther by faking the number of people that died that day. I believed what she and Mr. Berg had just said. Nothing about 9-11 made any sense. Why should it start now?

Not knowing then what I know now, Ellen and Phil believed that for some reason the government was holding back the names of the people that had died on Flight 175. She had tried to get in touch with the relatives of other family members, but to no avail. You see, she and her lawyer believed, just like most other people believe, that four jets had been hijacked by Arab terrorists and crashed into buildings and into the ground at Shanksville. I, on the other hand, had already swept those lies aside.

Their statement also gave credence to the Fox News reporter who said that the jet which crashed into the South Tower had no windows. Hey, this jet appeared to have a "pod" under it anyway. The pieces of the puzzle were starting to fit.

Now, we come to most interesting stuff - the Social Security Death Index, and thanks to Victor Thorn's idea, the September 11th Victim?s Compensation Fund. After all, it's one thing to say that the flight lists are not on the up and up, but it's another thing to prove it.

The Social Security Death Index (SSDI) (Social Security Death Index) is a privately-owned website that is not affiliated with Social Security. It boasts an accuracy rate of about 83% (e-mail them any questions you may have). Anyway, to check its reliability, I inputted the names of people I knew that had died in my family, along with friends and neighbors. Being a true skeptic, I had no way of knowing whether they were telling the truth or not. With the exception of a cousin, I found everyone I was looking for. (Be sure you have the person's true first name - they may not be listed by the state they last lived in, but can be found in the state where their social security number was issued.) By all means try it yourself.

Which brings us to the 9-11 Victims Compensation Fund (also known as the Shut Up and Take the Money Fund), which most of you have heard about.

9-11 Victims Compensation Fund

This is where our government opened up the Treasury and gave family members of those who lost their lives that day lots of money. In return, these families were basically told to shut up about anything else concerning 9-11. (Considering all the lies surrounding this horrific event, you can see why.)

At this point there is one thing we should never forget, and that is how powerful the notion of human greed is. Remember this concept as you read the number of victims whose family members sought compensation.

The names of the victims can be found on the CNN website.

Here are the results:

Flight 11: of the 92 people who are listed as dying on this flight, only 20 are listed in the SSDI (22%)

Of these 20 people, only three are on the 9-11 Compensation Fund list:

Judy Larocque
Laurie Neira
Candace Lee Williams=======================================

Flight 77: of the 64 people who are listed as dying on this flight, only 14 are listed in the SSDI (22%)

Of these 64 people, only five on the 9-11 Compensation Fund list:

William Caswell
Eddie Dillard
Ian Gray
John Sammartino
Leonard Taylor

=======================================

Flight 175: of the 65 people who are listed as dying on this flight, only 18 are listed in the SSDI (28%)

Of these 65 people, only three are on the 9-11 Compensation Fund list:

Michael C. Tarrou
Gloria Debarrera
Timothy Ward

=======================================

Flight 93: of the 45 people who are listed as dying on this flight, only 6 are listed in the SSDI (13%)

Of these 45 people, none are on the 9-11 Compensation Fund list:

No one

=======================================

Have you noticed anything strange yet? Of the passengers and crew of Flight 11, 77, 175 & 93, only 22%, 22%, 28%, 13% respectively are in the SSDI.

Remember human greed? Of the 266 people that we were told died on these jets, only 11 relatives applied for compensation. Can you believe that not a single relative from Flight 93 applied for compensation? I can't. Were all the relatives of the victims so rich that they weren't eligible to receive compensation? No, that's not it. (The minimum federal award was $250,000, and the average pay-out was about $1.8 million. The recipients only had to make agreement: they couldn?t sue the airlines.)

You should also know that most lawyers told their clients to take the money and run (which is what most lawyers would do - take the sure money). Ellen Mariani clearly elaborated on this point during her appearance on the radio show mentioned above.

Finally, during the past week, thanks to Lisa Guliani's insatiable quest for the truth, the 9-11 Victims Compensation Final Report has come to light.

9-11 Victims Compensation Final Report

Oddly, but consistent with everything concerning 9-11, the actual complete list of the people who benefited has been omitted from this report. Even without this, it does contain an interesting fact. According to the report, 98% of all the people who suffered a loss on 9-11 took the fund money. The average payment was $1.8 million.

But here's where it gets strange. According to the government, here are the number of people who accepted the compensation fund:

Out of a total of 92 people on Flight 11, only 65 accepted the 9-11 fund (71%)
Out of a total of 65 people on Flight 175, only 46 accepted the 9-11 fund (71%)
Out of a total of 64 people on Flight 77, only 33 accepted the 9-11 fund (52%)
Out of a total of 45 people on Flight 93, only 25 accepted the 9-11 fund (56%)

Does any of this seem a little odd to you? Or is it possible that not only were the jets on 9-11 magical, but their passengers as well?
So there you have it; yet another glaring 9-11 inconsistency - just maybe the biggest of them all?

Skeptically yours,
Vincent Sammartino

Don't know why I bother, since the phsycology, etc, etc will not allow acceptance of reality, but...

My aunt, Barbara Keating was on that flight. Her sons refused the 9-11 Fund on the grounds that accepting it absolves the airlines, gov, etc from lawsuits.

This article is compete garbage and a slap in the face to anyone who lost loved ones on those hi-jacked planes.

 

[pt1gard]

thanks, flapjack im sorry for your loss, but i am seeking answers like the one you gave

all my best
gregg