China and US money woes

THE KOD

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I am talking to this guy I know yesterday.

He is from a very wealthy family and their money was handed down through the generations. He works and runs a business and is smart and very
political.


So he tells me that the United States is in debt to China to the tune of 1 trillion 300 billion dollars.

He says that after the Olmpics China is going to force the issue with Taiwan coming back under their control. Either by invading them or taking them over.

If the US intervenes , China is going to call in1/4 of the debt ( not sure I understand that ) which would send the dollar plummeting and push the US to the brink of a depression.

They will then threaten us with calling in the rest of the debt if we do not allow them to take Taiwan back in their power.

He said anyone with their money in the US dollar should get out of it. :shrug:

I do not know how you could protect your money from something like this. His family obviously has alot more to lose than most of us.

If everything you ever worked for and had went down the drain in a few weeks, that would be life changing.

Wow he was pissed. He is voting for McCain.

He says either way we are pretty much fawked.

I kept my mouth shut about who I was voting for, as he is family of one of my largest customers.

Does any of that sound plausible. :shrug:
 

BobbyBlueChip

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Does any of that sound plausible. :shrug:

Yes. It would hurt China economically to take on their biggest consumer, but we're not the high percentage of their exports that we once were and now that they have a middle class internally, they need us much less than we need them.

I don't think it's a strong possibility, but it is plausible and there's nothing that the non-ownership class could do.
 

THE KOD

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How U.S. debt threatens the economy

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In 2006, look for a falling dollar and dropping bond prices, along with rising inflation and interest rates, as growing economies in China and India assert themselves.

By Roger Ibbotson


You don't have to invest in China or India to be affected by the dramatic growth of their economies. And you don't have to be a politician to worry about trade and budget deficits. They're all interconnected, and they will all affect your pocketbook in 2006 and beyond.

Yes, the growth of the global economy has created tremendous opportunities for trade and investment -- and helped keep our economy growing at a healthy rate. But certain long-term problems are becoming more apparent as a result of the way goods and dollars flow around the globe. A few: The U.S. dollar, long-term bonds and financial firms may be in for a rough ride.

But my forecast isn't all doom and gloom. The overall stock market looks like a value at current prices, and some sectors -- most notably energy stocks -- should benefit from Asia's continued rise.

A surplus of deficits

A trade deficit simply means that we import more than we export. The net result of this is that more money flows out of the country than flows in. Prior to 1980, the United States was a net exporter, selling more goods overseas than it imported. But over the last 25 years, the situation has reversed. The trade deficit today has grown to record levels (now almost 6% of gross domestic product), with the biggest import-export imbalances coming from China, Japan and Southeast Asian nations.

We're all familiar with a budget deficit. That's where we spend more than we earn and have to borrow to fill the gap. We rely on credit cards to get through a budget deficit; the federal government issues Treasury bonds to finance its shortfall.

The U.S. has run budget deficits over a great deal of its history. The budget deficit today isn't even the highest it's ever been -- we ran larger deficits (as a percentage of GDP) during World War II. But what has changed over the last 25 years is that foreign governments, rather than U.S. citizens, have been buying this U.S. debt (in the form of Treasurys). Now, approximately half of this country's debt is held outside the United States, primarily by China, Japan and Southeast Asian nations.

Until recently, none of this was a problem. These creditor nations, with whom the U.S. also had its largest trade imbalances, were happy to buy up our extra government debt. The system worked. Folks here bought their exports, and they bought our debt. American consumers benefited from the flow of inexpensive goods, and foreign creditors benefited both from their return on investment and the continued consumption of their goods. This global interdependency helped to kept interest rates low and the dollar relatively strong.

Through the 90s, as our trade deficit grew, our budget deficits made up only a small percentage of our GDP. We were easily able to service our debt. But war, tax cuts and Hurricane Katrina changed that. And the combination of a weighty budget deficit and a record trade deficit has made these creditor nations nervous about loading up on too much U.S. debt. It's reasonable to think that China, Japan and Southeast Asia may soon choose to diversify their investments and stop buying our debt.

Competition for oil

The U.S. is by far the largest consumer of oil, buying almost a quarter of the total supply. But as China and India emerge as world economic players, they are demanding significantly more oil for autos and industry. In fact, China has become the No. 2 world consumer of oil. And with a population almost four times ours (and yet, only slightly larger than India's), there's increasingly more demand for oil and natural resources.

At the same time, the potential to increase the global oil supply may be more limited than in the past. Saudi Arabia and other oil-exporting countries are already producing close to capacity. Static supply and increased demand will inevitably cause energy prices to rise. Like budget surpluses, cheap energy and natural resources are unlikely to return anytime soon.

What does this mean to me?

If foreign countries stop buying our debt, that will cause long-term bond prices to drop, interest rates to rise and the dollar to fall. Excess demand for energy and natural resources from China and India will likely spur a rise in U.S. inflation rates. Higher interest rates and inflation coupled with a weak dollar make long-term bonds a risky investment with very little upside. Investors looking to invest new money in fixed income will be better off investing in short-term bonds.

The impact on the overall stock market is less clear -- some sectors will benefit while others will struggle. The drop in long-term bond prices may be harmful to certain types of financial firms, for example. Rising oil prices may help energy companies but hurt manufacturing, while a falling dollar may make many of our products more competitive overseas.

Overall, the market is strong and more reasonably priced today than it was a few years ago. Price-to-earnings ratios have come down from highs in the 40s in 2000 to half that today. And that ratio hasnt come down because prices dropped, but rather because corporate earnings have increased -- a much healthier reason. Todays lower stock valuations make the market much more attractive and should attract more money to stocks, which should drive their prices higher.
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This is from 2006. :scared

So far I cannot verify the 1 trillion debt amount.

I am still looking though.

I do know China has always hated us for the Taiwan backing and defending. They feel like we have no business in their affairs so close to mainland China.
 

Chadman

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Sounds extreme, but I can see something like this happening at some point. I don't pretend to know the ins and outs of finance, but it just never made sense to me to have one of our most formidable rivals (in almost every sense) control so much of our money. They certainly could make things difficult for us financially, it seems to me.

I have always thought that being so far in debt as a country has to be a bad thing. Worst case, it could definitely change our lives as we know it.

Another reason I am pleased to see Obama visiting other important leaders, and things apparently going so well. I think the allies that we hopefully have left will be closer to us than they have been for the past few years, for just such a scenario.
 

Dead Money

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Upstairs watching sports on the big TV.
Buy physical gold

Buy physical gold

Inflation is going to explode soon.

The oil shock affects everything transported or made of plastic to name a few

I was at a restaurant yesterday and overheard the owner complaining about his cost on lemons doubling from 23.00 to 46.00...all due to oil.

He had just printed new menus with higher prices 3 months ago.

Retailers can only absorb so much..

Gold adjusted for inflation since 1980 high of 875.00 per oz should be 2650.00 per oz, it is currently 925.00.

Naked shorts keep this market in check for now, but history is on the side of gold, not printed presidential portraited green toilet tissue with nothing backing it, produced out of thin air.

Gold can be easily purchased in quantities of a tenth ounce to one ounce at coin shops across the world.
Put a portion of your funds in gold, think outside the box.
 

The Sponge

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Why do you think Cheney has 25 million invested in Euro Bonds? Remember how they kept telling us our economy was solid but this **** sucker had money invested in the dollar crashing.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Scott It would definately not be in China's or rest of world to see U.S. economy go downd tubes.

I believe the Tawain poker game antics (bluffing) have been played out and or ongoing with NKorea issue.

Same issue was brought up 20 years ago concerning Japan and U.S.
 

THE KOD

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Scott It would definately not be in China's or rest of world to see U.S. economy go downd tubes.

I believe the Tawain poker game antics (bluffing) have been played out and or ongoing with NKorea issue.

Same issue was brought up 20 years ago concerning Japan and U.S.
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I sure hope so .

China is very unpredictable. If they are embarressed by any Olympic events, I think we will be surprised at how they react.

And the whole world will be in the middle of it.
 

djv

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You can thank our last 7 years with giving China more chips to play with. And don't ever make mistake that China worries about it's poeple like we do. When you have 1.2 billion over 500 million still pesants. They can brush Tiawan aside like it's nothing. That's there edge along with owning 1/4 of our bonds.
 

djv

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I don't have number. But as reported a while back in the trillions. I believe are trade deficit is a trillion or more to. DTB is right to Japan owns about the same as China. But of course a lot of folks are ok with that. And of course Japan has become close friends.
 

Chadman

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Same issue was brought up 20 years ago concerning Japan and U.S.

Not sure our economic situation is remotely like it was then, nor our military stretched and occupied like it is now. Not to mention an ongoing focus on negativity towards America from scattered groups worldwide. No doubt China is aggressively seeking to become the World's #1 power - at least IMO - and what better way than to push economic and foreign policy issues at a time when our role in Iraq has caused world opinion to change towards our country?
 

THE KOD

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OK I spoke to a person that I trust about how to protect my money if the dollar were to tank like a mofo.

He first said gold. But his hesitation would be that if you buy gold at $ 950.00 a ounce, it can also
lose value and be only $ 500.00 a ounce in 6-12 months.

His next suggestion was Euros. Buy Euros at the bank with American dollars. I think the rate is now you get 800 Euros for 1,000 American dollars.

And then he suggested Euro bonds.

Apparantly it has been reported that Dick Cheney has $ 25 million dollars worth of Euro bonds.

These greedy fawkers know where to put their money .

A good question I would love to know , is how much was Bush and Dick Cheney worth 8 years ago, and how much is the total wealth of each one now.

There is something wrong with our system when the people in office are able to make this kind of money while serving the American people.

It is pathetic.
 

THE KOD

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prodGoldBuff01.jpg


Authorized by Congress through the Presidential Coin Act of 2005, the gold American Buffalo was first minted in 2006, and more than 300,000 of the coins were produced and sold that year.

Unlike previous American gold coinage, which has traditionally been 22-karat (or .9167 fine), the American Buffalo is unique in that it represents the United States' first large-scale circulation of a .9999 (or four-nines) fine gold coin in the Mint's history.

The obverse side of the gold American Buffalo features the profile of a Native American man, while the reverse side features the silhouette of an American bison standing in profile, modeled after "Black Diamond," a popular attraction in the New York Zoological Gardens in the early part of the 20th century. The coin's images were originally created by the American sculptor James Earle Fraser, a student of well-known sculptor Augustus Saint-Gaudens -- designer of the popular $20 gold Double Eagle minted from 1907 to 1933. The images were originally featured on the popular "Indian Head" or "Buffalo" nickel, minted in the U.S. from 1913 to 1938.

Each American Buffalo coin contains exactly one troy ounce (or 31.1035 grams) of pure gold. Its diameter is 1.287 inches (or 32.70mm), with a thickness of 0.116 inches (or 2.95mm), making it approximately the same size as a U.S. half dollar coin.

At this time, the gold American Buffalo is only offered in a one troy ounce size, although according to the U.S. Mint, fractional sizes of one-half, one-quarter and one-tenth ounce sizes are "under consideration."

The gold American Buffalo features a face value of $50 on the reverse side of the coin, is minted at the United States Mint in West Point, New York, but does not feature any mint mark. By law, all of the gold used in the production of the American Buffalo bullion coin must be from newly-mined sources within the United States.
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THE KOD

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AB_LINE_365DAY.PNG


Throughout time, from the Greek and Roman ages to more modern times, civilizations flourished with sound money. The gold coin has proved to be the time-tested answer for societies desiring economic prosperity. The alternative, fiat currency, has resulted in the demise of prosperous civilizations since Roman times. The word "fiat" means by government edict. It is simply impossible for a government to magically proclaim sound money and reliable purchasing power of wealth with paper currency. This fact prompts Americans to consider investing in gold coins.

In today's world of fiat currencies, buying gold coins still answers the need for sound money, as it has for thousands of years. Bullion coins have a proven ability to protect wealth and preserve one's purchasing power, and gold coins offer divisible size and are universally acceptable in a recognizable form. This makes the purchase of gold coins and the selling of gold coin convenient through reputable coin dealers. Monex is America's premier coin dealer because of its sizable buy-and-sell bullion and coin market. Billions of dollars in transaction volume is proof that Monex offers competitive gold coin prices, making Monex the preferred source for the purchase of coins. Whether it be for investing in pure 24k gold Vienna Philharmonic, American Buffalo, or Canadian Maple Leaf coins, or other monetary bullion coins like the Krugerrand or the US American Eagle, buying gold coins is a convenient method for wealth protection and profit potential.
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The thing that bothers me from the chart is that in less than 6 months gold has gone from 700 up to 1,000.

And that means it can drop that much if I stick all my stock funds in it.

I guess I have to look further back as that is a volatile sounding investment.
 
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THE KOD

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What is a Eurobond?

A Eurobond is a debt contract, which records the borrower?s obligation to pay interest at a given rate and the principal amount of the bond on specified dates. The issue has a specific structure and is defined in the EU Prospectus Directive (89/298) as transferable securities.

Although the distinction between Eurobonds, Foreign bonds and External bonds is less relevant than in the past, it is important to keep in mind that these are different classes of securities. As for Eurobonds, they can be classified in five types.

Trading

Eurobond is a treadable instrument: it is intended to be bought and sold during the period up to it maturity. It is usually launched through a public offering and is listed on a stock exchange.

Payments

It?s important to notice that there is no central register where holders of the issue are named. So Eurobond is in this sense a bearer instrument: interests are paid upon presentation of detachable coupons, while the principal amount is repaired on presentation of the Eurobond itself.

Listing

Although Eurobonds are listed in several stock exchanges, the London and Luxemburg stock exchanges are those most frequently used.

Taxation

Eurobonds are not subject to tax and largely free from government regulation. :SIB

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THE KOD

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Everything He Touches Turns Into Someone Else's Gold
Doomsday Dick and the Plague of Frogs
By MIKE WHITNEY

Gold traders love Dick Cheney.
Every time he opens his twisted lip and barks out another threat to Iran, the dollar takes a powder and gold futures shoot to the moon. Maybe that's the way Cheney likes it. After all, he dumped about $25 million in euro-bonds before he took office. Judging by the way he and brother-Bush have flogged dollar, he must have doubled his investment by now.

The old greenback has dropped nearly 35% in the last 6 years while gold has just about tripled. In 2000 the dollar was a trim, sinewy pillar of strength. It entered the ring like a young Mohammed Ali; darting to and fro while pummeling his prey with quick laser-like blows that were barely visible. Now, the greenback plods along like a 60 year old Rocky Balboa, wheezing heavily and reeling with every punch; waiting for the one roundhouse that will leave him staring up from the canvas, spitting up broken teeth and blood.

The dollar's in a heap o' trouble and "Doomsday" Dick is doing his level-best to make sure that it hits the skids before he leaves office. Just yesterday the snappish Vice President said, "It would be a serious mistake if a nation like Iran were to become a nuclear power. Then he added ominously, "All options are still on the table."

That comment put the dollar on its backside and sent Tokyo gold futures to a 21 year high.

Good work, Dick.

At present, the rest of the world is wondering if dollar's going to pull through without a nervous breakdown. Central banks in Europe, Japan, and China have increased their money supply and kept rates low in order to prop up the droopy greenback. But that won't last. Eventually, they'll all have to raise rates to slow inflation and stop equity bubbles from getting out of control. (The Chinese stock market rose by a whopping 140% in one year. They probably don't like the prospect of a Dot.com-type meltdown like we had in the US.) Regrettably, once interest rates start to rise, the dollar will quickly slip from view leaving nothing but a trail of vapor behind.

It's astonishing how cavalier Cheney and the gaggle of racketeers at the Federal Reserve have been regarding the dollar. After all, why kill the goose that lays the golden egg?

As the world's "reserve currency" the fed can simply print out a couple trillion whenever it comes up short and bring back boatloads of sleek, Chinese manufactured goods or tankers weighed down with petroleum to power our boxcar-sized SUVs. Or, maybe, Bernanke would rather crank-out another $12 billion in crisp $100 bills, shrink-wrapped and loaded onto pallets and sent off to Iraq where they can vanish in the black hole of corporate malfeasance.

That's not a problem as long as the world keeps accepting our "overdrawn" checks.

But what happens when the rest of the world sees that the "stewards of the global economic system" (that's us) are nothing but a bunch of Texas yahoos, religious zealots, and war-mongering boneheads?

See, the funny thing about money is that it requires confidence in the provider that he will honor his part of the deal and operate in good faith. Otherwise, no one would dream of exchanging valuable resources and manufactured goods for silly, green tokens of credit-based fiat money with squiggly writing and funny looking men in powdered wigs on it.

We all expect money to have value, and yet, the Bush team continues to sabotage the currency with their unfunded tax cuts, their $9 per month war in Iraq, and their 35% expansion of the federal government. (Remember when Clinton said the "era of big government is over"?) The result of this craziness was thoroughly predictable; central banks are running for the exits.

Last Firday, the government reported that net capital inflows reversed from the requisite $70 billion to AN OUTFLOW OF $11 BILLION!

The current account deficit (which includes the trade deficit) is running at roughly $800 billion per year, which means that the US must attract about $70 billion per month of foreign investment (US Treasuries or securities) to compensate for America's extravagant spending. When foreign investment stumbles, as it did in December, it puts downward pressure on the dollar.

So what does it all mean?

It means they don't want our stinking greenbacks. And, if they don't resume purchasing our debt (US Treasuries or securities) the dollar will join Rocky Balboa on the canvas peering out blankly at the klieg lights.

Just last week, the Royal Bank of Scotland conducted a survey which showed that Central Banks in Italy, Switzerland and Sweden have made "major adjustments" in their stockpiles of dollars. The cutbacks raise the fear that a stampede away from the dollar could begin at any time, triggering a global currency crisis of biblical proportions.

"The full faith and credit" of the US Dollar does not mean what it did 6 years ago. That's a fact.

The Bush-Cheney-Federal Reserve axis believe they can keep this ponzi-scheme going by cornering the oil market (attacking Iran) and forcing the petroleum-thirsty world to accept our feeble banknotes. But that's just nuts. The Chinese are already killing us by buying up oil and natural gas leasing rights around the world WITH OUR OWN DOLLARS!

We're getting beat with our own stick.

It wasn't supposed to work that way. We thought we were being clever by destroying the American labor movement and shipping our industry to China. We figured we could trounce the middle class at home while putting the "fear o' god" in the Chinese with our "shock and awe" military that was supposed to be out of Iraq in 3 years at the most.

How's that working out?

Now the housing-bubble albatross is dragging down millions of home owners while the maxed out American consumer is down to his last credit card. In other words, the $11 trillion of new debt that was cleverly engineered through Greenspan's low interest rate bonanza is about to detonate and bring the whole, wretched tower of American debt crashing to earth.

The whole mess could have been avoided with responsible leadership. If Bush's wasteful tax cuts had gone to the middle class they would have stimulated positive growth in the economy and reduced the widening wealth gap. If Greenspan had raised interest rates in 2001 it would have slowed down new home construction and circumvented the housing bubble. If Bush had negotiated with Saddam, he could have secured oil-leasing rights (which Saddam offered in the weeks before March 2003) without dragging the country to war.

Instead, the economy is facing disaster; the dollar is shaky, gold is soaring, personal savings rates are shrinking, margin debt is skyrocketing, foreign investment is drying up, home sales are plummeting, and Dick "Last throes" Cheney wants to expand the war to Iran.

All we're missing is a "plague of frogs."

Cheney is still convinced he can pull off his whacko scheme to control Middle East oil and, thus, force the world to take worthless sheets of green scrip that're backed up by $8.7 trillion of debt and wouldn't even make good bird-cage liner.

It's madness.
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:shrug: :SIB :shrug:
 

THE KOD

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Dick Cheney is five times richer than his boss Bush
Front page / World / Americas
16.05.2007 Source:

In financial disclosure reports for 2006, President Bush put his assets at between $7.5-20 million, while Cheney estimated his net worth five times higher at $21-100 million. Cheney was also given more expensive gifts than Bush with an approximate value of $21,764 against Bush's $12,354.

Dick Cheney is five times richer than his boss

Mr Bush's assets included his 650ha ranch in Texas, valued at $US1m to $US5m, where he usually spends his holidays.

He also reported assets of $US775,689 from a limited liability company organised in 2003 to produce trees for commercial sales, which were expected in 2007.

Among his holdings were certificates of deposit, Treasury notes, a qualified diversified trust, and $US116,000 assets of the GWB Rangers Corporation, which is wholly owned by Mr Bush from when he was co-owner of the Texas Rangers baseball team.

Mr Cheney reported assets valued at $US21m to around $US100m.

Mr Cheney gained much of his wealth from his former role heading oil service firm Halliburton.

Mr Cheney's largest holdings included investments in an American Century Investments International Bond Fund and a Vanguard short-term tax-exempt fund. He has 100,000 Halliburton stock options that are unexercised and designated for charity.

The financial disclosure statements give the value of assets only in ranges.

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I wonder if their credit card payments will be reported like the rest of us.

Something tells me that there is no way that these assets are all they have.

Its a differant financial world with 100 million to throw around.
 
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The Sponge

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OK I spoke to a person that I trust about how to protect my money if the dollar were to tank like a mofo.

He first said gold. But his hesitation would be that if you buy gold at $ 950.00 a ounce, it can also
lose value and be only $ 500.00 a ounce in 6-12 months.

His next suggestion was Euros. Buy Euros at the bank with American dollars. I think the rate is now you get 800 Euros for 1,000 American dollars.

And then he suggested Euro bonds.

Apparantly it has been reported that Dick Cheney has $ 25 million dollars worth of Euro bonds.

These greedy fawkers know where to put their money .

A good question I would love to know , is how much was Bush and Dick Cheney worth 8 years ago, and how much is the total wealth of each one now.

There is something wrong with our system when the people in office are able to make this kind of money while serving the American people.

It is pathetic.

Chad pointed this out two years ago and i pointed it out about a year ago. I think we got one response each and Chad responded to me about saying he might have posted this. You won't get any responses unless Chad wants to say something. Its really despicable but it doesn't seem to bother guys who rather worry about someone on welfare (never met a person on welfare in my life anyone else?) then guys this high up in office making huge sums of money from the misery of their very own citizens. Scotty go check out who made the mother load on the Bird flu con job. I will give you a hint. Donald Rumsfield. Duct tape crap? Cheney. Why you think these pricks spend 500 million to get a 400000 thousand dollar job? Boy i can't imagine the money Bush and Cheney will be making after they leave office and go on their speaking tours. Has to be an all time high
 

THE KOD

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Chad pointed this out two years ago and i pointed it out about a year ago. I think we got one response each and Chad responded to me about saying he might have posted this. You won't get any responses unless Chad wants to say something.
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I disagree.

I think the people of the Politics forum will unite and come in here with advice on how I can
protect my money and theirs.

The answers are out there.

I am just afraid I am not smart enough to figure it out by myself. I never had to worry about banks going out of business and being on gov watch lists and such.

ok waiting to prove Sponge wrong ... anyone ?:0corn :0corn
 
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