is there any more debate on who the best.....

[Scott4USC]

Sugar Bowl bid is USC's to lose

-68 pts behind Okl. in AP, means 62 of 65 had USC 2nd

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?page=/bcsroad/1101

 

[BobbyBlueChip]

I'm not surprised at your homer type response.

Comes one post after "The one team I wouldn't want to face right now is Florida. They are hot." Funny stuff!!

SC is the only one that has a shot at Oklahoma. Saying that the rankings are a farce and then using those same rankings to prove the point that one team is better than the other is ludicrous. The polls from the beginning are skewed towards the SEC and the Big XII as they are always in the polls from the beginning and they rarely schedule out of conference matchups, so they stay ranked until conference play begins. Having a playoff would make the college football regular season as meaningless as it is in all other sports.

Everyone knows the rules, you win out or you risk being shut out.

 

[ND2002HORNS]

Scott - I admire your loyalty to your program. But you have failed to show any of us all year that you are capable of separating loyalty(being a homer) from being objective. Two cases that you exemplified this alone was tonight and there have been many times this year as well.

1 - "our kicker lost us 3 games over the last 2 years"
2 - "USC could beat any SEC school by double digits on the road"

Show us you know your football rather than make an ass of yourself. If you are so involved with USC then you of all people would know that it was not just the kickers fault you lost 2 games. What about each snap that takes place over the course of a game, you don't think any other player factored into those losses? You don't think the coaching staff factored into those losses by bad scheming or play calling?

As well, USC showed everyone that no team can get up emotionally for each team the same way by losing to Cal. If you are around USC football as much as you say you are then you would know players and coaches tell the media that it is hard to bring the same game to the table that you would for say Miami as you would for BYU. The real question is can a team overcome the non-emotion for a sub-par team by still outskilling their opponent with their talent? That is why Miami and OSU have been perfect over their National Titles runs, they were able to overcome adversity and still win something that USC has yet to accomplish because they have yet to have a perfect year which is why Larry Coker and Jim Tressel have better coaching staffs than USC. Pete Carroll has yet to show us he can overcome that problem. Coker and Tressel did it in less time than Carroll has been coach so don't tell us he needs more time because if he was so great he would have accomplished what Tressel and Coker have already done. Stoops won a National Title and went undefeated in only his 2nd year. Carroll is at best the 4th best coach in the nation along with his coaching staff. Take off your rose coloured Trojan glasses and be objective for once, but then again I am asking for a miracle for you to do that.

I compare you to an employee in the business world. Same scenario. Loyal big time but fail to be objective. Case in point, if I were to sit down with the two employees for large software companies, one from Microsoft and one from Corel. They each would tell me that Word or WordPerfect are a better software but that is only because they work for those individual companies. Then if you were to go to an outsider with super knowledge of both companies, then and only then would I get the response I am looking for.

So for you to tell us that USC has the best recruiting class is only because that is all you hear at practice and meetings and that is what you choose to believe. You are not on the campus of other schools hearing what talented players other schools are getting and what each player is capable of doing. If you were so great at assessing talent then a minor or major publication would hire you to go around the country and assess the top HS players in football. You would then compile your info and write an objective article but instead all you do is look at one team in one way and the rest in another light.

Your so-called opinions hold no water with me as well as many others in this forum so if you want some respect then quit telling us how Carroll is the best coach and that USC has the best recruiting classes. Quit telling us how USC would win every game on the road at any SEC school. And on and on.........with you.
Basically what I am telling you is to also quit being so childish because you are doing what a child does. Argue with each person that USC is better at this and that when you are told USC is not the best at something. You remind me of my nieces and nephews arguing with their friends when some kid says his daddy is stronger than theirs.

HORNS

 

[Mr Hockey]

Comes one post after "The one team I wouldn't want to face right now is Florida. They are hot." Funny stuff!!

SC is the only one that has a shot at Oklahoma. Saying that the rankings are a farce and then using those same rankings to prove the point that one team is better than the other is ludicrous. The polls from the beginning are skewed towards the SEC and the Big XII as they are always in the polls from the beginning and they rarely schedule out of conference matchups, so they stay ranked until conference play begins. Having a playoff would make the college football regular season as meaningless as it is in all other sports.

Everyone knows the rules, you win out or you risk being shut out.

What is so funny about the statement I made? Florida is playing good football right now.

They have beat 3 quality teams in a row. They beat a national title contender @ their place by 12, followed that up with a 5 pt win over a good team in the Razorbacks & followed that up with a 3 pt win over a top 5 team in Georgia.

Can you name me 5 teams that are playing better football then these guys in the last few weeks in all honesty? I know you can't so I don't expect a reply.

 

[BobbyBlueChip]

Was not meant to be a bash.

3 good wins by Florida to be sure. USC's playing pretty well, too and you called someone else a homer for stating that. That's what I thought was funny.

 

[ND2002HORNS]

Gators are peaking at the right time. So true.

HORNS

 

[Scott4USC]

First off, nice write up BobbyBlueChip, i agree with you.

ND2002HORNS
Why do you keep calling me a homer? I said i think USC would beat any SEC team on the road by double digits. USC is a "very" good all round team and has many playmakers. USC can run/pass the ball effectively. I think USC is more talented than any team in the SEC. I also think that USC has better coaching staff than any team in the SEC. I said i think USC would beat ANY SEC by double digits. YES I THINK THAT! I can disect matchups, but why should i waste my time. I disected USC vs AU, and said USC would win by double digits. I happened to be right. (yep, you called me homer on that one too).

This is a forum, OU fans can think their team would beat USC by double digits. Guess what, they do have some reasons for thinking that. Are they right or wrong? We do not know. I would disagree with that but i will not call an OU fan a homer for thinking that.

This year i only bet on USC twice with big bets, and went 2-0. I also though USC would win every game this year including CAL. (i have $100 on USC to win NC 15-1 and $500 to win $900 on USC to win pac 10) I did however, thought CAL would be tough along with ND. The rest of the year i thought USC would win double digits including WSU. So i guess i have a pretty good grasp on USC. Am i right all the time? Hell no, but i do make an educated opinion. Right now i think OU would beat USC by 7pts in close game. I just never would bet against USC.

USC kicker did cost USC 3 games. Yes i know, there are things the team could done different. But the kicker did not miss 50 yarder, it was extra pts and 30 yarders. Kicker missing that is not acceted in my book. AGAIN MY OPINION. Against CAL this year he missed a 39 yardfield goal in TRIPLE OT. Cal kciker made a 38 to win the game. Yes other factors lead up to it (like USC playing worst game of year) but i put blame on kicker. MY OPINION which i can state. So if you expect a close game with USC, take into consideration USC kicker has history of CHOKING! Might cost us a NC.

As for Pete Carroll, last year USC was the best team in the nation. MY OPINION but many many others shared same thing. Did USC deserve to win NC? NO, cuz we had 2 losses. But USC fans like me would rather play a tough schedule (last year #1 SOS) and win it that way vs playing an easy schedule geared to win a NC. Nexy year USC wants to open up with MIAMI, they declined. USC always wants to play the best. I respect that and proud of it even if it costs USC NC's. Could Coker done well with USC schedule last year? I don't think so. Could Ohio St. won last year with USC schedule? NO WAY! MY OPINION, i do not think Coker is a great coach but rather a good coach. Remember, he won with DAVIS players who were DAMN GOOD. Lets see how he does the next few years. Next 2 years are going to be national championship runs for USC. This year was not a NC run for USC and look what Pete Carroll has done. COMPLETELY NEW BACKFIELD QB and RB. Lost #1 Defensive player and #1 Offensive player (heisman winner) from last years team and opened up the year playing @ AU. Carroll is the real deal, and I think Carroll and Stoops are the 2 best coaches. Stoops better watch out cuz USC is recruiting better athletes and building a dynasty.

As for USC recruiting classes, i go by what educated fans/recruiting services/and coaches say. I posted links to prove my point. Recruiting is a crapshoot, but there are rankings if you did not know. USC happened to finish #1 last year in it and USC projected to finish top 3 this year in recruiting. You have a problem with that?

ND2002HORNS
I guess i am honored that you feel threatened by me to always come post and call me out when i am involved in a thread. Too bad your other madjackers do not feel the same way and maybe next time post with some substance related to the material and not me. As usual, i take nothing away from your post.

FIGHT ON!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Mr Hockey]

Was not meant to be a bash.

3 good wins by Florida to be sure. USC's playing pretty well, too and you called someone else a homer for stating that. That's what I thought was funny.

Correction I called someone a homer for being totally biased about their team. I'm not biased about the Gators. I'll say it when they are pure garbage like I'll say it when they are good.

I was just making some factual points about USC & LSU from an unbiased point of view since I'm not a fan of either program.

 

[Mr Hockey]

Scott: You are being ridiculous when you say that USC could beat every team in the SEC by double digits. Your team lost to Cal for christ sake & they are no world beaters. Oklahoma didn't dominate a so so Alabama team & you admit that Oklahoma could give your team problems. So if you feel that way & considering how Oklahoma didn't dominate Alabama, how exactly would your team fare against other teams in the SEC that are much better then Alabama.

 

[pt1gard]

arthur mercante here

arthur mercante here

as prob the only person on this board who has a decent knowledge (kinship) on NDhorns and Scottusc, I will step in and play peacemaker, hehe ...

first off lemme say, I like both guys and have corresponded with them and both have treated me great, so I find it kinda curious there seems to be such rancor between them ...

does Scott love USC, my gawd yes, hes obsessed by them, however, i do think he admits to their weaknesses, and even he is surprised by how well they are doing this year ...

trojans have also covered 13 of last 15 games, mostly easily i might add, and scott has prob bet 7 of these, several quite large, i will witness to that ...

trust me, this isnt a "support scott" post, I have argued with him many times on various subjects, i.e Kobe/shaq (lemme add Lakers 36-8 w/o Kobe and Shaq plays; lakers 56% w/o Shaq and Kobe plays, hehe, had to get that in) and other topics I dont want to get into, and does he enjoy arguing, discussing?--HELL YES--to the point of annoyance ... so my guess is U 2 guys push each others buttons and got off on wrong foot ... but underneath scott is a good guy

as for ND, ive known him from board for 2 years and hes always been great guy and supportive and proven a good capper ... I have never found him to "go off" on anyone w/o merit, but scott has become raspberry seed in his wisdom tooth--and I can see how that happens, b/c I see scott as lil brother who I have to whack in line sometimes ...

But he does know usc fball better than anyone on here by miles, he has posted many easy winners on here concerning usc and for that we should be grateful ...

on this board people often get things out of context or read "tone" into things for whatever reasons, Ive done that on IMs with my GF, and its something we should all be on guard for ...

anyway, I think both these guys are great, postiive additons to MJs and even tho im not sure what this post meant, I did wanna add on to this thread saying I support the both of U ...

gl, to all
gregg

 

[Ndfan]

Lsu is getting no respect. In my opinion lsu should be right up there at number 2 or 3 with usc in the bcs standings. They have the best defense in the country and play in a tougher conference than the pac 10. The pac 10 this year just isn't as solid as it has been latley. Lsu lost to Florida who is better than usc one loss to unranked cal. They have a much tougher schedual than sc, and if they win out they should be playing OU in the sugar bowl. I think this will be tough, as ABC is begging for an OU USC sugar bowl. lsu will not be ranked high enough in both polls to jump USC.

Im not saying that Lsu is better than USC, as I see these two teams matching up pretty evenly, but niether one of these two would beat OU. I just think Lsu should be given more credit and looked at more, as they have acomplished more than USC at this point in the season.

My top 10

1 OU
2 LSU
3 USC
4 Miami
5 Virgina Tech
6 Florida State
7 Michigan
8 Ohio state
9 Florida
10 Georgia

 

[thekidwhocould]

Oklahoma didn't dominate a so so Alabama team & you admit that Oklahoma could give your team problems. So if you feel that way & considering how Oklahoma didn't dominate Alabama, how exactly would your team fare against other teams in the SEC that are much better then Alabama.

WOW!!! DID I REALLY JUST READ THIS

 

[Scott4USC]

I said i "think" USC would beat "any" SEC team by double digits. I also "think" USC would be at "least" a 7pt favorite over any SEC team on neutral field. Could a SEC BEAT USC? SURE. But if USC played "any" SEC next week, i think USC would win in double digits, even if it was on the road. Just my opinion and I am not way off for thinking that. I def. can be wrong.

I also do not understand why everyone thinks OU is not beatable. If USC is fortunate enough to play them in Sugar Bowl, i say USC has at least 40% of beating them. I know OU has not seen a talented team as USC or as fast as USC. Also they have not played a team as balanced as USC. Same things can be said about USC not seeing a team like OU. I also know QB White has not faced a DL like USC all year, which would put the guy on his back many times. One clear advantage OU has is special teams (which USC is average in).

SEC conference is really good, and i am not disrespecting any of their teams. I just think USC would beat any SEC team by double digits. Maybe not 20-30pts, but least 10pts. You can play a hard tough game and win by double digits. I never said USC would blow out any SEC team.

Like it or not, fans across the country better get used to USC on top because Carroll is building a dynasty. YEP he is still building and USC has contended for the NC the last 2 years. The next 2 years are suppose to be USC NC runs, not these last 2 years. I do not think these are homer statements, just confidence. I have put $100 on USC last 2 years to NC (because i knew USC had the talent but i did not know if USC had the team). The next 2 years, i will be betting $1000 on USC to win pac 10 and $1000 on USC to win NC. Thats how confident i will be, and I am not saying USC 100% will win it all, maybe 75% chance next year. Hopefully USC opens at 10-1 but i doubt it.

USC has done average at best the last 10-20 years with some highlighted years. USC lacked coaching, but USC always had talent to compete with anyone in the country. Now USC has coaching, and that is something to be feared. THe worst USC coaches could recruit top 15 recruiting classes (even when USC was down), Carroll recruits #1 classes and does his own evaluating unlike many coaches who rely heavily on recruiting olayer rankings! Remember, Mike Williams for USC was only a 3star recruit out of Florida.

If I sound like a homer or too arrogant, i am sorry. But i have reasons to be optimisic and confident. Pete Carroll and staff have not let down USC and have proven everyone wrong, even USC fans. Maybe USC beating OU in Sugar Bowl will silence the nation and gain respect. But i understand why many people doubt USC because we play on west coast and USC has not dominated in last 10-15 years. I totally understand, but i am trying to let everyone know USC is for real. In last 2 years i can name at least 10 teams that honestly felt they were going to beat USC and some predicted double digit victory, and USC ended up dominating and winning in double digits in every single game. Guess USC will have to upset OU in Sugar Bowl (which i think will be tough and as of right now think USC would lose by 7pts in tough game). I do not trust USC DB's or special teams.

Last thing, Pete Carroll has never lost in November!

Thanks for props pt1gard, i appreciate it.

FIGHT ON!

 

[gman2]

oklahoma has already played a team as talented as southern cal. in fact - they were probably MORE talented than southern cal.

final score of that game was oklahoma 65-13.

talent doesnt mean anything sometimes.

 

[Toto]

Scott, How'ed those Trojans do in 2001 and 2002 when the played a home and home with K-State? 2 losses!!

 

[Scott4USC]

Texas might be more talented than USC but the problem with Texas is 3 things.
#1 Coaching
#2 Lack of Player Development
#3 Texas is not physical

USC plays as a team, has great coaching, has balance, very physical both sides of ball, multiple playmakers, and most important, USC gets better every week (scary). PETE CARROLL HAS NOT LOST IN NOVEMBER! Great improvement by his teams. USC used to be like Texas, great talent, marginal results. Not anymore.

Toto
In 2002, USC lost to #6 Kansas St @ KSU 27-20. Remember, USC played and beat #22 AU and beat #14 CO @ CO. Back to back road games with the #14 and and #6 teams in the country. I think KSU played a division 2 school before USC. lol.
Oh my bad, KSU played 3 div. 2 schools prior to USC and was able to only focus on USC.

In 2001 USC lost to #11 Kansas St. 10-7 at home. (1st year of Pete Carroll)

ESPN has USC on every page for how many different days? WOW, USC getting a lot of well deserved pub.

FIGHT ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[The Big Tease]

LOL...the PAC10 is the least physical conference of any BCS conference, lol. Defense is about as plentiful in the PAC10 as Offense is in the Big 10! USC is a solid team, but I think that Wash St was overrated. All this hype is only after a solid win against an overrated team at home. Sorry I dont care what ratings say....USC has not played anyone of substance this year except for Auburn and Washington State. Yea they won those games, but lets get in in a hostile environment in a big game...I dont think they would survive.

 

[gman2]

tease:

just a counterpoint. using the criterion that the pac-10 isnt a strong conference, that means ohio state has had one good win all season as well (iowa). it gets difficult when we start breaking down schedules and saying "so and so isnt a good win, or this win wasnt a good win, etc etc". sometimes we just gotta use what we see on the field and extrapolate from there. which obviously leads to various opinions.

 

[Scott4USC]

This is a young USC football team. Lets see, USC last year played @ KSU, @ OREGON, BOTH CONSIDERED VERY HOSTILE!

This year USC played @ AU (Considered very hostile), and @ ND.

No stadium or environment will bother this USC team. USC silences crowds buddy!

Last year in Orange Bowl, USC heard that IOWA is so physical and BIG 10 football is better than pac 10 football. Please, USC hears it all the time and proves everyone wrong every time. Give me a break. Keep thinking USC is not physical. lol. USC is def. one of the top 5 teams in terms of being physical. Try stopping the USC DL?

FIGHT ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[hornsfan2]

I know OU has not seen a talented team as USC or as fast as USC.

that is what you said...now you go to the coaching aspect and player development side of it, which I will not disagree with...I am just trying to figure out if your argument is talent? coaching? oh, i got it - both.

yes, texas wasn't physical against arkansas and against OU they were out of it before they even knew what hit them. they were physical against nebraska and have a chance to prove a thing or two in "hostile" stillwater. either way, that team is talented and quick but they still got it handed to them by OU. as i said before they are good, scary good.

anyway, i didn't see it, but was USC physical with Cal? if so, did they just get "out-physicaled"?? seriously, i didn't see the game and really don't keep up with the pac-10. I know tedford is money and teams sometimes slip up. But how can some of these same arguments you are applying up and down this thread not be applied to a talented, well coached, and "getting better all the time" LSU team? I mean they didn't lose to Cal...they at least barely got beat by the dawgs in one of the most boring games that made me appreciate the remote control.

also, the "beating the SEC teams on the road by double digits" crap has got to stop (i know you qualified it by saying that is what you think...so here is what i think). that is the least objective and most slanted post I have ever seen on a gambling board. you can keep saying it and keep believing b/c we will never know (unless they meet in a bowl game)...so, maybe they could...then again, maybe there are four or five SEC teams that could beat USC in SoCal by double digits....please don't come on here and tell me that couldn't happen b/c you will simply prove my point.

then we got this:

maybe 75% chance next year

of winning the title? maybe? why didn't you just go for the less conservative 90%? hell, make it 99.9% that has got to be a joke. then i re-read all of your other posts and realize it isn't. to even say that a team right now, which isn't even the best in the country has a better chance than the "field" category to win the MNC is ridiculous. that doesn't even mention the talent OU is returning...

finally, the espn thing is simply the network fanning the flames for some BCS controversy/discussion. they want people to talk, debate, and argue about it like we do...that will keep everybody tuning in and seeing who they think is better than the other. also, they are probably out of OU pics after having them up for entire first half of the season...especially against the horns.

I know i don't have many posts here, but i lurk often enough and add when I can...i just thought this "USC love" was getting a bit carried away. ultimately, if USC was as good as I am reading I don't think we would be debating this b/c they would also have a zero in the loss column. just my two, but i thought i would throw them out there.