THAT crook should never show his face again
http://www.pokernews.com/news/2012/12/howard-lederer-settles-civil-case-with-sdny-14032.htm
Ivey wins $12 Million by noticing flawed cards
- Thread starter hedman
- Start date
THAT crook should never show his face again
http://www.pokernews.com/news/2012/12/howard-lederer-settles-civil-case-with-sdny-14032.htm
This is not even close to correct. Not even close.
Unless of course the casino let him bet after the cards were dealt (face down).
Even if he knew what the 1st card was on EVERY hand (which he did not) it would not give you a "tremendous advantage". Not even close. Plus if even half of the deck was "defective" that means that most of the time Phil wouldn't even know what the 1st card was most of the time. You need 4 cards minimum to play baccarat, and sometimes six cards. And considering most of the time Phil wouldn't even know the value of the 1st card and considering you need at least 4 cards to play baccarat his advantage is small. Very small.
Fuck even if you knew the 1st card was zero on 10 straight hands your advantage of winning is increased but not by much.
You could have the entire shoe face up and every player at the table would have a slightly better advantage, but not much. Before you bet you would only see the 1st card, that's it.
For you to say he had a "tremendous advantage" is just plain wrong. Not even fucking close.
Obviously, Ivey and the $12 million he won disagree with you that it wasnt an advantage.
I dont think he won $12 million betting 220,000 a hand by luck. Ive never rolled my way to $12,000 betting $220 a hand.
1st off it is Baccarat, huge money is bet on that game all the time.
2nd off if you play baccarat you will realize that him seeing one card every 5 or 6 hands gives you a small advantage (and 5 or 6 hands is generous). Go deal yourself 10 hands of baccarat and see the 1st card every hand, you will see what I am talking about. You will notice the advantage is small. As said.....you could turn the shoe over and deal the entire deck face up, would not make much of a difference, you would only see the 1st card. Would there be an advantage....yes there would be, but a small one.
Of course he had an advantage (if the casino story is true, which I doubt) but it was a small one.
Let's put it this way........if you had a 52 card shoe and 20 of the cards were "defective" you could go the entire shoe and not see one "defective" card showing as the 1st card.
And I'll say this again.........if the casino was stupid enough to let him bet AFTER THE CARDS WERE DEALT (face down)
Well then fuck yeah he had a massive advantage. He'd win 80 percent of his hands easily if that were the case.
The casino provided the cards. Unless Ivey marked his cards it is the BOSSES responsibility to change out cards. not the players. Nothing unfair about it. Definitely not cheating. Even if he had the best advantage in the world every player at the table had the same advantage. Unless there are by-laws that specifically talk about it when he gave is entry fee. THEY WILL PAY
Kick,
You're right. Philly Boy was just on a lucky streak. The fact that his concubine made sure that the cards never got swaped out, and were always loaded in a specific direction, were just happenstance.
You're right. Philly Boy was just on a lucky streak. The fact that his concubine made sure that the cards never got swaped out, and were always loaded in a specific direction, were just happenstance.
Guess you have trouble reading. If the shoe was covered he'd only see one card. And if even 20 of the cards per deck were "defective" (I am giving a big number for my example I am sure it was not 20 cards).
You are smarter then that....figure it out. He had a tiny little advantage every 7 or 8 hands if that. It meant almost nothing.
Again......go deal yourself baccarat....show yourself the 1st card every 6th hand or so....you'll pick up on the fact that the advantage is almost nothing.
Come on YYZ, get with it:facepalm:
Now if they dealt the cards face down and then he bet.
Well then of course he had a massive massive massive huge huge advantage.
Bottom line.......he did nothing wrong.
How in the love of fuck a casino could go days and not change the cards is just so stupid.
And if they actually let him bet with the cards face down............well they are lucky they didn't lose 30 million US dollars.
How in the love of fuck a casino could go days and not change the cards is just so stupid.
And if they actually let him bet with the cards face down............well they are lucky they didn't lose 30 million US dollars.
I read the thing just fine. When the "advantage" cards came out, the accomplice had the dealer turn them around. (These were most likely 8/9 value cards, not 0 value)
EVERY card was "flawed"! But, if you had the backs of shitty cards facing one way, and the cards that helped you the most facing the other, it would (regardless of what you seem to think) give the player a TREMENDOUS ADVANTAGE!!!!!
If I make shitty bets when any other cards come out, and load up when an 8/9 is showing, I will bet you that I could walk away with about $12M over a couple days.
Oh, wait.
Could there be any other advantage in this play? Well, sure there is!
If I know for certain that the Player "doesn't" have that 8/9 up, I will place a wager on Bank. Now, it's just a regular me vs casino wager, but I already know the Player hand can't beat me with a face card on the next card out.
And if you think ANY information a player can have that he normally doesn't, isn't an advantage.......You are simply in the minority.
Phil Ivey: Advantage Punto Cunto Player
Your example above is showing that he was allowed to bet AFTER THE CARDS CAME OUT
I already said, if that was true then he had a HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE advantage. You'd win like 80 percent of your bets if that were the case. That would be a huge advantage:scared :scared
If the casino was that fucking stupid then they deserve what they got. I find it hard to believe any casino in the world would let you bet on Baccarat AFTER THE CARDS LEFT THE SHOE.
They could not be that fucking stupid...could they:shrug:
Every single customer at that casino should just be paid for walking in the door. When a casino is that dumb they deserve to lose millions of dollars.
and what about this ULTIMATE cheater ... still cant believe NOTHING happened to him and he is still playing
http://www.cardplayer.com/poker-new...mits-in-audio-recording-i-did-take-this-money
http://www.cardplayer.com/poker-new...mits-in-audio-recording-i-did-take-this-money
:facepalm:
No.....It's not.
You can see half of the card sticking out of the shoe, Kick. This is the reason the "key cards" had to be specifically set in the shoe, so they could be "read" as they peaked out.
As you know, from being an accomplished Baccarat player, you can mull over your wager for several seconds. That would give you plenty of time to eye up the card in que to be first out for the next hand.
I can't keep explaining this, and you're not going to budge, so let's move along.
