Obama care-day 1

DOGS THAT BARK

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Wayne: I know you are in the insurance industry, so the way health care companies operate probably makes sense to you. But when companies are building in a yearly 10% health care cost increase to their business plans, something is fucked up....oh yeah, and the "providers" are making record profits. People who have paid for insurance, become left out when the "provider" decides they don't have to provide said insurance. It is a joke. If you think things are just great, try dealing with a serious illness or a "pre-existing condition" you just found out about. It is a scam that only a fellow con man would appreciate.

Is this your example then?

Lets get a few things straight 1st things so we can sort out the truth and not the cons Gumby been feeding you.

A pre existing condition in Ky is defined as-- anything treated for 6 months prior to application has 1 year waiting period before it's covered.

I think that is fair--other wise you have people not apply for insurance until they got sick.

Example despite Gumby's tear jercker about his moms cancer not covered because of pre existing--the truth of the matter is -the PHD was not only a welfare whore but played the system on every angle--eg didn't apply for insurance until after being diagnosed with cancer and to go one further IMO she had to lie about condition to have company accept application or told them and they excluded it up front with a rider.

--another issue--todays headline
Obama administration has blunt message for insurers



<ABBR class=timedate title=2010-03-29T16:54:17-0700>Mon Mar 29, 7:54 pm ET</ABBR>
<!-- end .byline -->WASHINGTON (Reuters) ? The Obama administration on Monday had a blunt message for health insurers -- the new healthcare law requires that they not drop coverage for children with certain pre-existing conditions.
==============

WTF
I do not have a clue what they are talking about--I have never written a health policy that the company can drop a child or anyone else because of health conditions once it is issued unless fraud on application can be proven.

Now what facts do we know--
Price Gouging--do we need to put meager profits on ins co up again

So how do we cuts costs? Whats one thing both sides agreed on and would cost us absolutely 0.
Yep Tort reform--and what issue did they skirt entirely behind closed doors--yep tort reform!
 

MadJack

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--more updates on reality vs rhetoric-
-or I told you so

The working class :(
Da Base :00hour


NEWS & COMMENTARY
<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR vAlign=bottom><TD colSpan=2>The cost of ObamaCare: AT&T announces $1 billion loss in first quarter...to cut benefits
result of higher taxes in the ObamaCare bill
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>



March 29, 2010
Business Week is reporting that ObamaCare will cost AT&T a billion dollars in the just the first quarter, and will now proceed to negotiate changes to its union contracts to reduce health care benefits to its employees. Exactly what Republicans predicted would happen when Democrats were saying "if you want to keep you current insurance you will be able to do so under ObamaCare."

About an hour later, after AT&T announced its loses, 3M announced that a loss of $85 to $90 million after tax dollars. Verizon, in a letter to its employees, warned them that benefit cuts should be expected.

Last week Caterpillar announced last week that it was taking loses as a result of the taxes imposed by ObamaCare and is moving its backhoe operations from Clayton, NC to the United Kingdom, where business taxes are lower.

And all that is just in the first three days of ObamaCare.

These losses they are reporting is nothing more than paying the taxes that they were supposed to be paying to begin with.

Government reimburses these companies for expenses and these companies have STILL been taking the tax deduction. WTF?

Like the government reimbursing me for my health insurance and property taxes and then I take the tax deduction on top of it.

THEY WERE STREALING!

They should have to pay the back taxes they skipped out on too.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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No, you are the one who believes everything he is told. You need to evolve from believing everything your party tells you. Maybe you should vote for Ron Paul?

You might want refer to this-- :SIB

http://www.madjacksports.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2616930#post2616930

--and a little visual /sound effect to once again ingrain liberal logic :)

http://www.soundboard.com/sb/Sheep_Sounds.aspx

Ace%20Dance.gif
 

WhatsHisNuts

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Is this your example then?

Lets get a few things straight 1st things so we can sort out the truth and not the cons Gumby been feeding you.

A pre existing condition in Ky is defined as-- anything treated for 6 months prior to application has 1 year waiting period before it's covered.

I think that is fair--other wise you have people not apply for insurance until they got sick.

Example despite Gumby's tear jercker about his moms cancer not covered because of pre existing--the truth of the matter is -the PHD was not only a welfare whore but played the system on every angle--eg didn't apply for insurance until after being diagnosed with cancer and to go one further IMO she had to lie about condition to have company accept application or told them and they excluded it up front with a rider.

--another issue--todays headline
Obama administration has blunt message for insurers



<abbr class="timedate" title="2010-03-29T16:54:17-0700">Mon Mar 29, 7:54 pm ET</abbr>
<!-- end .byline -->WASHINGTON (Reuters) ? The Obama administration on Monday had a blunt message for health insurers -- the new healthcare law requires that they not drop coverage for children with certain pre-existing conditions.
==============

WTF
I do not have a clue what they are talking about--I have never written a health policy that the company can drop a child or anyone else because of health conditions once it is issued unless fraud on application can be proven.

Now what facts do we know--
Price Gouging--do we need to put meager profits on ins co up again

So how do we cuts costs? Whats one thing both sides agreed on and would cost us absolutely 0.
Yep Tort reform--and what issue did they skirt entirely behind closed doors--yep tort reform!

Wayne: Are you capable of having a discussion about facts? You continue to tell everyone where we get our info, but that isn't "factual". So, if you are going to keep starting every rebuttal with this nonsense, don't expect anyone to take you serious.

I do like how you dismissed my real world example of how health care is out of control.
My wife (who is a finance manager for a large multinational company) has been instructed to build in 10% HC increases when quoting new business and restructuring old contracts. Please tell me how this example shows our current system working?

Cut costs, tort reform, blah blah blah. The system is completely fucked and it is time to get overhauled. Our HC insurance costs are through the roof Wayne! I never used to pay anything but a copay, now I pay for everything they do and touch.

By the way, I love how you highlighted the part about children with "pre-existing conditions". You don't think a HC "provider" has lawyers that can prove ANY condition was pre-existing? Do you understand the game you are playing Wayne? I think not. Like I said, maybe you need to deal with one of these things in the real world to understand how bad these record-profit-generating scumbags are screwing us.
 

Trampled Underfoot

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I am still clueless on where DTB thinks that I am an Obama fan. I donated to Ron Paul.

Lets get this clear, DTB. I only defend Obama against KKK style attacks on here. You are an obvious racist. Along with a few others. Its 2010. Take off the hood and turn off Fox News for once.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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These losses they are reporting is nothing more than paying the taxes that they were supposed to be paying to begin with.

Government reimburses these companies for expenses and these companies have STILL been taking the tax deduction. WTF?

Like the government reimbursing me for my health insurance and property taxes and then I take the tax deduction on top of it.

THEY WERE STREALING!

They should have to pay the back taxes they skipped out on too.

I believe the quote you highlighted was about your boy lying about our coverage not changing Jack.

-however I'm am curious about point you made and how its tied in--please elaborate and some references please- besides Obama quotes--I believe I've clearly pointed out what their worth. :)
 

MadJack

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I believe the quote you highlighted was about your boy lying about our coverage not changing Jack.

-however I'm am curious about point you made and how its tied in--please elaborate and some references please- besides Obama quotes--I believe I've clearly pointed out what their worth. :)
Gov reimbursed those companies for those expenses (some kind of subcidy sp?) and they went ahead and took the tax deduction as well. It was legal, I guess, but a loophole none the less. I'm pretty sure kcwolf knows what I'm talking about. I read it in yahoo finance a couple days ago, and not going to search for it.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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I am still clueless on where DTB thinks that I am an Obama fan. I donated to Ron Paul.

Lets get this clear, DTB. I only defend Obama against KKK style attacks on here. You are an obvious racist. Along with a few others. Its 2010. Take off the hood and turn off Fox News for once.

Yes yea yea and stats are racist--as is National Geographic-as are the prisons- and welfare--and everyone else that brings up any thing that reflects you in a negative light

Just scream racist every time you don't like the #'s/facts and no other excuse.

I have article for you tomorrow from black author on you race baiters and how/why you are the very ones that are responsible increase in crime-welfare-illigitamcy etc of the black community in in the last 20 years.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Wayne: Are you capable of having a discussion about facts? You continue to tell everyone where we get our info, but that isn't "factual". So, if you are going to keep starting every rebuttal with this nonsense, don't expect anyone to take you serious.

I do like how you dismissed my real world example of how health care is out of control.
My wife (who is a finance manager for a large multinational company) has been instructed to build in 10% HC increases when quoting new business and restructuring old contracts. Please tell me how this example shows our current system working?

Cut costs, tort reform, blah blah blah. The system is completely fucked and it is time to get overhauled. Our HC insurance costs are through the roof Wayne! I never used to pay anything but a copay, now I pay for everything they do and touch.

By the way, I love how you highlighted the part about children with "pre-existing conditions". You don't think a HC "provider" has lawyers that can prove ANY condition was pre-existing? Do you understand the game you are playing Wayne? I think not. Like I said, maybe you need to deal with one of these things in the real world to understand how bad these record-profit-generating scumbags are screwing us.

---and that is your answer --I give you unequivical proof that Gumby is a lying cocksucker blowing smoke up your ass and your rebuttle -a lawyer can prove any condition is pre existing.-------Shhheeez

Do I like the 10% yearly increases-no--but you think Gumby's plan will correct that or copound it.

Give us an example of any gov program as example of something ran efficiently within budget--

what about 1 trillion debt to start us off--no you don't want to go there

Maybe you have some inkling how adding 30 million illegals and deadbeats is going cut cost--for we the people--enlighten us--but don't tell me because Gumby says so. :)

on your situation

Let me get this straight--You have group coverage and are unhappy with it?
Remember DJV thread--you'd be the 1st that was not satisfied.

What is cost and what are benefits?
 

Trampled Underfoot

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Yes yea yea and stats are racist--as is National Geographic-as are the prisons- and welfare--and everyone else that brings up any thing that reflects you in a negative light

Just scream racist every time you don't like the #'s/facts and no other excuse.

I have article for you tomorrow from black author on you race baiters and how/why you are the very ones that are responsible increase in crime-welfare-illigitamcy etc of the black community in in the last 20 years.

Don't take it personally. Own it. Why do you think you are on your own island here? Well its got Hedgy and Skul on it. Think about it. Other conservatives are sick of your shit. What does that tell you? You are completely blinded and come off as a complete fool on here.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Gov reimbursed those companies for those expenses (some kind of subcidy sp?) and they went ahead and took the tax deduction as well. It was legal, I guess, but a loophole none the less. I'm pretty sure kcwolf knows what I'm talking about. I read it in yahoo finance a couple days ago, and not going to search for it.

Lets suppose for sake of arguement it is correct and they got tax breaks they will get revoked.

that would not alter my initial statement--you got corps who pay billions in taxes and employee millions who taking a hit to benefit 30 million of which 12 million are illegals and no one knows who the others are-- bottom line again--redistribution--anyway you want to spell it.

Working class :(
Da Base :00hour
 

MadJack

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Lets suppose for sake of arguement it is correct and they got tax breaks they will get revoked.

that would not alter my initial statement--you got corps who pay billions in taxes and employee millions who taking a hit to benefit 30 million of which 12 million are illegals and no one knows who the others are-- bottom line again--redistribution--anyway you want to spell it.

Working class :(
Da Base :00hour
they aren't "taking a hit", they will be paying their fair share of taxes they owe :shrug:
 

Chadman

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I would estimate (personal opinion) that a majority of the big companies that Wayne is supporting and defending have been dodging their tax responsibilities in a variety of ways over the years, and accelerating them when needed to keep their shareholders in line. I can't imagine how much better off this country would be financially if both people, and corporations, paid what they were supposed to pay. Moving jobs to other countries to avoid paying fair wages and taxes on those people, business segments to other countries while still benefiting from U.S. business scenarios that have built them into the major corporations they are now, etc. Literally laundering and hiding money through improper business creations in other countries for the sole purpose of avoiding their responsibilities.

How many of these companies would be alive right now if it weren't for being in the U.S., operating under the scenarios they have been, in all different financial scenarios through the years? They have grown to where they are in the very situation they bitch about and claim such hardship about. This certainly goes for the very wealthy in this country, as well. They bitch, they profit, they take steps to only take care of their own bottom line. And we should listen to the same crying drumbeat from these people - when so many of them have openly defrauded our own government and its people?
 

Chadman

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And now, thanks the Supreme Court, these same companies can now affect elections in this country - in every nook and cranny of it - by the use of the money they can hide from the government and its people. Sorry, I can't feel too sorry for some of these companies. I understand what they do for the country - I truly do - but I certainly don't think they are operating in any real sense to HELP the country as a base of operating philosophy.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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MO gov cheese--

PHILIP ELLIOTT, Associated Press Writer Philip Elliott, Associated Press Writer ? <ABBR class=recenttimedate title=2010-03-30T13:43:49-0700>2 mins ago</ABBR><!-- end .byline -->
WASHINGTON ? Finalizing two major pieces of his agenda, President Barack Obama on Tuesday sealed his health care overhaul and made the government the primary lender to students by cutting banks out of the process.

--as an after thought- all this work on jobs and economy like the above programs-cough cough has produced one milestone during this admin--

Social Security to See Payout Exceed Pay-In This Year
By MARY WILLIAMS WALSH
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/25/business/economy/25social.html

Tax and spend economics--One goes under--add 2 more-
-to which O replied --hey -you voted me in and gave me an unlimited credit card--and by God I'm gonna use it--and quit bitchin you knew my parents and my credit history/character- now suck it boys--I've just begun. :)
 

kcwolf

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MO gov cheese--

PHILIP ELLIOTT, Associated Press Writer Philip Elliott, Associated Press Writer ? <ABBR class=recenttimedate title=2010-03-30T13:43:49-0700>2 mins ago</ABBR><!-- end .byline -->
WASHINGTON ? Finalizing two major pieces of his agenda, President Barack Obama on Tuesday sealed his health care overhaul and made the government the primary lender to students by cutting banks out of the process.

--as an after thought- all this work on jobs and economy like the above programs-cough cough has produced one milestone during this admin--

Social Security to See Payout Exceed Pay-In This Year
By MARY WILLIAMS WALSH
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/25/business/economy/25social.html

Tax and spend economics--One goes under--add 2 more-
-to which O replied --hey -you voted me in and gave me an unlimited credit card--and by God I'm gonna use it--and quit bitchin you knew my parents and my credit history/character- now suck it boys--I've just begun. :)

Chad, Madjack, no use trying anymore. DTB is now posting last week's news or longer. The student loans have been known for a long time now. DTB can't defend his original post, and then this.:mj07: :mj07: :mj07:
 

hedgehog

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inflation, every good and service will just pass on the higher price to the consumer :shrug:

we all lose
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Chad, Madjack, no use trying anymore. DTB is now posting last week's news or longer. The student loans have been known for a long time now. DTB can't defend his original post, and then this.:mj07: :mj07: :mj07:

Can't defend original--believe Jack calling on you for assistance--where are you?

more on topic--

March 30, 2010
Shut Up, He Argues

By Rich Lowry

Henry Waxman is peeved. He expects corporate America to swallow health-care reform without a peep of protest -- and, apparently, without revealing new costs to shareholders or the Securities and Exchange Commission.
Last week, AT&T announced it will take an immediate $1 billion write-down thanks to a new tax in the health bill that will cause Caterpillar ($100 million) and Deere & Co. ($150 million), among other large employers, to do the same. The benefits consultancy Towers Watson estimates that the change may reduce corporate profits by as much as $14 billion over time.

That's real money. For comparison: It's enough to bribe Sen. Ben Nelson of the Cornhusker Kickback 140 times over; it's three times the amount Democrats poured into a (failing) weatherization program that once was a highlight of the stimulus bill; it represents 10 percent of the supposed deficit reduction of health-care reform over 10 years.
It may be that the health bill's most immediate, high-profile effect is the destruction of shareholder wealth.

Not to fear. Waxman, the liberal lion who chairs the House Energy and Commerce Committee, is on the case. No, he doesn't want to change the tax provision -- he wants to browbeat the affected corporations. He has called the CEOs of AT&T, Caterpillar and Deere to testify before his committee, accompanying his summons with a far-reaching document request lest the corporations miss the point: This is naked political harassment.
Citing the Congressional Budget Office, Waxman says his concern is that the write-downs appear "to conflict with independent analyses." If he's genuinely surprised at the real world departing from CBO projections, he should brace himself for more shocks. Is he going to demand that OMB Director Peter Orszag testify when the projected deficit reduction doesn't materialize?
Waxman maintains his interest is ensuring the bill "does not have unintended consequences." Because an immensely complex bill of more than 2,000 pages would never have any of those, right?
But Waxman's vendetta and the offending write-downs are hardly unintended or unforeseen.
Democrats clearly plan to blame the private sector for all the downsides of their health plan. In a private lobbying session, President Obama told liberal lawmakers that the bill is only "a beginning." Any increase in costs and premiums -- both of which are inevitable -- will be attributed to corporate malfeasance requiring yet more government intervention.
Democrats can't say they weren't warned about the coming write-downs. Companies began to receive a tax-free, deductible subsidy in 2003 to continue prescription-drug coverage for their retirees, a ploy to keep the firms from dumping retirees into the new government prescription-drug program. Outside experts and big employers counseled against ending the deductibility, pointing out that it would adversely affect the companies' financial statements immediately. (Account- ing rules require corporations to note the long-term effect of the new liability right away.)
These warnings got shelved under a category ensuring their brusque dismissal: Information Inconvenient to the Passage of Health-Care Reform. Now that the prediction has come to pass, it's all AT&T's fault.
The companies will reconsider providing prescription-drug coverage for their retirees at all. The Employee Benefit Research Institute calculates that companies could now save $1,000 per beneficiary by handing them off to the government. As many as 2 million more retirees could end up on the government program, according to James Klein of the American Benefits Council. These retirees might wonder about the truthfulness of Obama's constant promise that everyone can keep his current insurance.
The CBO estimated that the new treatment of the subsidy would generate roughly $5 billion in revenue. If companies stop taking the subsidy, that revenue disappears -- while the costs of the drug program increase.
A Towers Watson study stipulates that "employer plans generally provide much better protection than the standard Medicare benefit." And subsidizing those employer plans is cheaper to the government than providing the coverage itself.
In short, a lose-lose-lose proposition -- no doubt, the first of many. Henry Waxman will be a busy man.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Some more tidbits of interest out today--from liberal media no less


USA Today
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2010-03-29-health-poll_N.htm

Nearly two-thirds of Americans say the health care overhaul signed into law last week costs too much and expands the government's role in health care too far, a USA TODAY/Gallup Poll finds, underscoring an uphill selling job ahead for President Obama and congressional Democrats.



http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/30/business/media/30cnn.html

CNN Fails to Stop Fall in Ratings</NYT_HEADLINE>

<NYT_BYLINE>By BILL CARTER

</NYT_BYLINE>Published: March 29, 2010

CNN continued what has become a precipitous decline in ratings for its prime-time programs in the first quarter of 2010, with its main hosts losing almost half their viewers in a year.

Even in the morning, CNN is sliding. Its ?American Morning? show dropped behind ?Morning Joe? on MSNBC in total viewers for the first time; it still beat the MSNBC show among 25- to 54-year-olds, though it was down 29 percent from a year earlier.
At the same time, Fox News, which had its biggest year in 2009, continues to add viewers. Greta Van Susteren?s show was up 25 percent from a year earlier. Bill O?Reilly, whose show commands the biggest audience in prime time with 3.65 million viewers, was up 28 percent, and Glenn Beck was up 50 percent from a year earlier.

--and on the- what ya doing in 10 years topic--

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/editorials/ct-edit-buffett-20100329,0,7563220.story

Debt dangers

The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office offers a prognosis: "Under the president's budget, debt held by the public would grow from $7.5 trillion (53 percent of GDP) at the end of 2009 to $20.3 trillion (90 percent of GDP) at the end of 2020." Interest payments would quadruple.:nooo:






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