:mj07:
Mmmmkay. You're not paying for anything. And customers never dictate salary of middle management but that doesn't stop your ilk from saying the same tired responses to this every time it happens.
Scott Walker new Gov of Wisconsin
- Thread starter GENO
- Start date
:mj07:
Mmmmkay. You're not paying for anything. And customers never dictate salary of middle management but that doesn't stop your ilk from saying the same tired responses to this every time it happens.
- Feb 26, 2001
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I love the irony of this thread. You've got an insurance man telling us how much teachers should be paid. The one who produces nothing wants to tell us how much we should pay a profession that sculpts young minds. Incredible.
Forget doggie's Michelle Maglalng screed, and look at the truth about WI teacher's pay.
State Starting Salary Average Salary 10-year increase Salary Comfort Index
Alabama $31,368 $40,347 28.9% 13
Alaska $38,657 $53,553 7.9% 30
Arizona $30,404 $44,672 37.5% 35
Arkansas $28,784 $42,768 44.8% 11
California $35,760 $59,825 41.6% 44
Colorado $35,086 $44,439 25.7% 12
Connecticut $39,259 $59,304 18.0% 22
Delaware $35,854 $54,264 33.9% 2
Florida $33,427 $43,302 29.9% 26
Georgia $34,442 $48,300 42.1% 3
Hawaii $35,816 $49,292 37.7% 50
Idaho $27,500 $41,150 33.2% 33
Illinois $37,500 $58,686 43.4% 1
Indiana $30,844 $47,255 25.4% 8
Iowa $27,284 $41,083 26.9% 31
Kansas $27,840 $41,467 28.1% 21
Kentucky $30,619 $42,592 28.8% 15
Louisiana $31,298 $40,029 45.4% 20
Maine $26,643 $40,737 23.9% 47
Maryland $37,125 $54,333 32.0% 37
Massachusetts $35,421 $56,369 35.0% 34
Michigan $35,557 $54,739 16.9% 4
Minnesota $31,532 $48,489 31.3% 10
Mississippi $28,200 $40,576 46.5% 19
Missouri $29,281 $40,462 25.2% 16
Montana $25,318 $39,832 35.6% 46
Nebraska $29,303 $40,382 28.2% 17
Nevada $27,957 $44,426 22.8% 45
New Hampshire $28,279 $45,263 26.5% 48
New Jersey $38,408 $58,156 19.3% 36
New Mexico $33,730 $41,637 43.2% 29
New York $37,321 $57,354 19.2% 38
North Carolina $27,944 $43,922 44.4% 23
North Dakota $24,872 $37,764 40.0% 43
Ohio $33,671 $50,314 33.0% 6
Oklahoma $29,174 $38,772 36.5% 18
Oregon $33,699 $50,044 26.0% 14
Pennsylvania $34,976 $54,027 17.2% 5
Rhode Island $33,815 $54,730 31.0% 42
South Carolina $28,568 $43,011 36.0% 24
South Dakota $26,111 $34,709 31.7% 41
Tennessee $32,369 $42,537 28.4% 9
Texas $33,775 $41,744 32.9% 7
Utah $26,521 $40,007 30.8% 39
Vermont $26,461 $46,622 28.5% 49
Virginia $33,200 $43,823 26.0% 25
Washington $30,974 $46,326 22.4% 32
West Virginia $26,704 $38,284 19.1% 40
Wisconsin $25,222 $46,390 21.5% 28
Wyoming $31,481 $43,255 37.0% 27
Still jealous?
I still think $25,000 is really good for 9 months pay (plus benefits).
$46,000 is awesome...no wonder we have so many people who want to be teachers. I think I read somewhere that some states have a 5:1 ratio of people applying for every open teaching job.
All it takes to improve education is to throw more money to it.
:0074
So go get yourself a Master's degree and get to work in one of those awesome paying jobs.
Teaching in inner city Milwaukee is probably a ball.
What's so great about inner city Milwaukee? I hope this isn't a racist remark.
:0003
Funny thing about teaching - everyone outside the teaching profession talks about how great the job is - only 9 months of work, great benefits, yada yada. Then, why don't more people do it? Let's see - a couple reasons come to mind - people want to make more money (AH, THE IRONY), and they aren't dedicated or intelligent enough to do it.
Ridiculing them for being unionized, somehow they should not be allowed to do that to try to make as much as they can, keep what they've negotiated for, rising up against political influence trying to dictate how they should teach, what they should focus on, applying national regulations and requirements on how their business is run.
But boy, tell anyone outside that arena the same kind of thing, who yells the loudest and screams against that kind of thing? Don't regulate MY industry. Don't tell me how to run MY business. Don't take away what I'VE worked hard to achieve.
I guess it all depends on whose ox is being gored, right? Listen, I can appreciate the complaints about unions these days and being unreasonable about what they should get or maybe foregoing those things for a while when times are tough. But there are plenty of decisions made about how to spend money in our education system that have very little to do with student education or teacher-relations.
I guess I don't really understand all of this, haven't had time to look at it - but I don't really think running and hiding on the issue is the best way to go about it - but it also looks like the Republicans are trying to ram this legislation down the throats of democrats - and I seriously doubt all those Republican legislators are seriously considering all viewpoints and how to fully represent all their constituents with this move.
Ridiculing them for being unionized, somehow they should not be allowed to do that to try to make as much as they can, keep what they've negotiated for, rising up against political influence trying to dictate how they should teach, what they should focus on, applying national regulations and requirements on how their business is run.
But boy, tell anyone outside that arena the same kind of thing, who yells the loudest and screams against that kind of thing? Don't regulate MY industry. Don't tell me how to run MY business. Don't take away what I'VE worked hard to achieve.
I guess it all depends on whose ox is being gored, right? Listen, I can appreciate the complaints about unions these days and being unreasonable about what they should get or maybe foregoing those things for a while when times are tough. But there are plenty of decisions made about how to spend money in our education system that have very little to do with student education or teacher-relations.
I guess I don't really understand all of this, haven't had time to look at it - but I don't really think running and hiding on the issue is the best way to go about it - but it also looks like the Republicans are trying to ram this legislation down the throats of democrats - and I seriously doubt all those Republican legislators are seriously considering all viewpoints and how to fully represent all their constituents with this move.
Scott Walker has no problem making sure that this money is earmarked for Badger Care, though!
So, if I may play the political angle for a bit, I'm not paying more money for MY insurance benefits......I'm paying more so the welfare slugs can stay fat and sassy.
That's wonderful. And my last contract? When we got nothing, and understood why, it was real hard to understand how the welfare families got a nice fat raise. I believe it was 12%.
It's amazing that we can always raise taxes, and find cuts everywhere EXCEPT from the people who contribute absolutely nothing to the pot.
"Everyone has to tighten their belts in these trying economic times........"
Yeah, right.
So, if I may play the political angle for a bit, I'm not paying more money for MY insurance benefits......I'm paying more so the welfare slugs can stay fat and sassy.
That's wonderful. And my last contract? When we got nothing, and understood why, it was real hard to understand how the welfare families got a nice fat raise. I believe it was 12%.
It's amazing that we can always raise taxes, and find cuts everywhere EXCEPT from the people who contribute absolutely nothing to the pot.
"Everyone has to tighten their belts in these trying economic times........"
Yeah, right.
You may not know this, but there are more teachers than positions to fill...by something like a 5:1 ratio, so its not like there is a profound shortage of qualified candidates.
Do you honestly think that there is a 5:1 ratio of teachers to positions across this country? I eagerly await the link to your information. Sorry, the "I think I saw that somewhere," thing isn't exactly proof.
Do you have any idea which direction teacher numbers are headed? Do you realize how many teachers are heading towards retirement, compared to coming into the profession? Even if you don't know, can you imagine which way they would be headed, considering how high retirement numbers are going to be in the coming years on a strict age-population basis?
I know for a FACT, that in the State of Minnesota there was a law JUST PASSED this Wednesday making it easier for teachers coming here from other states to become teachers here - since our standards and requirements are so high to become a teacher. I exchanged e-mails with three legislators and spoke to one personally about this, and that's the reason they gave for the legislation - TEACHER SHORTAGES in many areas. Sure, there are probably teacher application rates of 5:1 in some school districts, for some schools - just like in any business.
Again - I await your link to the 5:1 ratio - some perspective will help.
Here's a link you requested...
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/92204339.html
That's just one...but I'm sure you know how to use google too...
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/92204339.html
That's just one...but I'm sure you know how to use google too...
When you talk about the private sector it is important to pay the execs so we can retain the best. Again talking out of both sides of their mouths. And if you check the benefits at any huge employer most benefits are as goood if not better than State workers.
Hmmmm.......Hard to believe a lot of applicants would want to teach second graders in a great community.
Great argument, though.
Here's one with a video in case you don't want to read it....
http://www2.alabamas13.com/news/2010/jul/19/too_many_applicants_too_few_teaching_jobs-ar-662343/
It's not like I'm making this ratio up...maybe it's different in your town.
http://www2.alabamas13.com/news/2010/jul/19/too_many_applicants_too_few_teaching_jobs-ar-662343/
It's not like I'm making this ratio up...maybe it's different in your town.
Yeah, I know how to use Google. I looked at the Bureau of Labor Statistics website about teaching, and they are saying demand for teachers (overall, not just one very specific job posting in a highly admired school system) is expected to rise similarly to other professions. Just makes sense.
One question: Do you think that it's just teaching that has hundreds of applications for jobs these days? Have you looked for a job recently? Do you have any idea what the competition is for jobs over the past couple of years? Did you even think about that? I've talked about this issue with school officials, my old employer (nothing to do with schools), several people looking for work, and other business owners. They are FLOODED with applications for EVERY job they post - and there aren't many jobs even offered these days. But, no sense in looking at common sense or an overall perspective, right?
Here are some good questions about this job posting in particular - very appropriate and gives some perspective to your post - from the follow up discussion on that post. As I figured - this seems to be a highly sought after school system - doing very well, well-funded. Of course, this system like others have suffered cuts due to the economy. Nothing different here than in most other economic sectors.
I also wonder why these stories are written, but mainly because they are so shallow and tell only a fraction of the story. Is the situation in Grafton unique (and therefore newsworthy)? How does the number of applicants compare to other districts? What is the starting pay in Grafton compared to other nearby districts? How many vacancies does Grafton have in a typical year vs. other districts? Has Grafton recently laid off teachers? If so, have any of them been called in to interview for this job or is the district laying off older, better paid teachers so that it can hire less-experienced, lower paid teachers? How does Grafton's pay compare to other districts in Ozaukee County, Milwaukee County, MPS? There is a story to be done on this subject, but this one is so poorly researched/reported, who even knows if it qualifies as news?
OK, well I guess I'm wrong then about there being more teachers than teaching jobs.
And I don't have the slightest idea what the reason is for so many applicants for this school system.
How did this spiral out into the entirety of the job market? I made a point that I saw a story that reported on several different states and that was the number they said. So, forgive me if I was misinformed.
Report Envisions Shortage of Teachers as Retirements Escalate
By SAM DILLON
Published: April 7, 2009
Over the next four years, more than a third of the nation?s 3.2 million teachers could retire, depriving classrooms of experienced instructors and straining taxpayer-financed retirement systems, according to a new report.
The problem is aggravated by high attrition among rookie teachers, with one of every three new teachers leaving the profession within five years, a loss of talent that costs school districts millions in recruiting and training expenses, says the report, by the National Commission on Teaching and America?s Future, a nonprofit research advocacy group.
?The traditional teaching career is collapsing at both ends,? the report says. ?Beginners are being driven away? by low pay and frustrating working conditions, and ?accomplished veterans who still have much to contribute are being separated from their schools by obsolete retirement systems? that encourage teachers to move from paycheck to pension when they are still in their mid-50s, the report says.
- More here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/07/education/07teacher.html
By SAM DILLON
Published: April 7, 2009
Over the next four years, more than a third of the nation?s 3.2 million teachers could retire, depriving classrooms of experienced instructors and straining taxpayer-financed retirement systems, according to a new report.
The problem is aggravated by high attrition among rookie teachers, with one of every three new teachers leaving the profession within five years, a loss of talent that costs school districts millions in recruiting and training expenses, says the report, by the National Commission on Teaching and America?s Future, a nonprofit research advocacy group.
?The traditional teaching career is collapsing at both ends,? the report says. ?Beginners are being driven away? by low pay and frustrating working conditions, and ?accomplished veterans who still have much to contribute are being separated from their schools by obsolete retirement systems? that encourage teachers to move from paycheck to pension when they are still in their mid-50s, the report says.
- More here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/07/education/07teacher.html
