Chad:
I do appreciate your insights - probably more than anyone else on the board.
But even you got to admit - this is JUST like Obamacare, part II. The Dem's rammed it down the Repubs throats.
To quote Nancy Pelosi: "The ends justify the means". And Mr. Obama "Elections have consequences".
That was THEIR justification for passing the bill - even again the majority public opinion.
Here is WI, the public opinion is behind this bill (clearly the teachers aren't, but they are the minority). What are the rules different now that Republicans are doing exactly what the Dems did?
AND you didn't see the Repubs run away from the vote and shut the government down.
In the end, it won't matter. This will pass in its current form, with a few small amendments that don't mean much, and WI will be much better long term because of it.
And Scott Walker will end up being a presidential candidate in 6 years - wait and see.
Mags, I do agree with much of what you are saying here. I'm not completely sure how I feel about the union thing. Hoping to be a teacher in a little over a year, I definitely have mixed feelings about it. I'm perfectly fine competing in an open market for a job - I think I'll bring a lot to the table. And I think unions in a lot of cases are not being realistic about situations. That being said...
To say that unions are only looking out for themselves - which conservatives do - seems ironic to me. What, exactly are corporations doing these days? Politicians - on both sides? Think most of them ultimately care about the worker? Really? Boards, management, and CEO's? Most of them? Really? Shareholders? Do you honestly think shareholders - who ultimately decide what the others have to care about - care about the plight of the worker? Really? And now that the Supreme Court has allowed in unlimited money from unlimited and unreferenced sources from anywhere in the world (literally) to our election process, who is honestly going to protect the worker? The worker - that's who. Now, I'm not sure I completely agree with unions having such a large say in the electoral process - which I admit they do - I think we as individuals have been wiped from the process, almost completely. How this can be looked at as acceptable to me is ludicrous. What's the first thing that happens after this new money helps get this Governor elected, and Republicans get in? He/they go right after the union. Get rid of the union, you still have those that paid your way into office behind you, forever changing the political way of life in the country?
A hysterical viewpoint? Perhaps. But I think it makes sense. And I think that sucks.
More to the point at hand - I suppose - I agree this is much like the healthcare debate. I get so tired of the Obamacare reference - but I know it's a galvanizing thing for some of you. At any rate, I agree it's much like that, one side trying to ram something down the other's throats. Do I think the general public is thinking all this through? No, I don't. Do the Republican legislators have a right to do this? I suppose. Do I think they are doing it for the reasons they say they are? In very small part, yes. But if they truly were doing that, they would accept the budget scenario and leave it at that, IMO. Going after collective bargaining is far more political than economic - and I'm not sure how that can't be considered to be the case, unless it's part of your own political agenda, of course.
It's interesting that before when Dems were doing it - it was horrible. Now, it's ok. Ox being gored stuff, to be sure. Hypocrisy in action? Of course. I admit it's similar. But to hold these teachers to some kind of expected standard when their very present and future is concerned seems convenient. Very convenient.
People say they shouldn't leave their post and stand up for their rights. They should do it on the weekend. They should negotiate in good faith. I ask, when and how could they have done this? The bill (from what I heard) came to light on Friday of last week, with no real notice or discussion. The proposers have a complete majority and are going right after everything they've worked for for years. The bill was to be discussed and voted on before the next weekend, and would have immediately passed. When exactly would there have been a negotiation with the union or teachers? After the vote? Certainly not before, if ever. Teachers just should have waited to find out what was going to be taken away from them? And liked it?
Would any of you conservatives just accepted all that and moved on? Really? If so, fine - sorry if I don't believe you.
The saddest thing of all to me is how many of these people ripping teachers and talk about them caring about kids and doing their jobs do none of those things at home, and certainly regarding other people's kids.
If the Governor was ultimately concerned about his shortfall of $137 billion, perhaps starting with not passing tax cuts for the "haves" that cost the state right out of the gate nearly that much. Start there, and maybe you could be taken seriously. No, let's reward the "haves" and bust up the teachers union, and go from there.
Interesting the firefighters and police that are out there alongside the teachers. I think that says a lot.
As for Scott Walker, I am impressed with his stage presence and fortitude. He seems like a strong guy - good or bad. I could see him being a focal point for Republicans moving forward, for sure. Maybe sooner than 6 years... him and Christie from NJ. That guy's a comer, too.
