UGA, how long have you taught? Do you have any personal experience with the differences in your school(s) due to NCLB? Heading into the profession, I'm happy to hear about other teachers and their thoughts.
Scott Walker new Gov of Wisconsin
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So, Maggot, you look at some numbers and draw the conclusion that race is predictive of academic achievement.
You have already eliminated the effect of income versus academic achievement? Parents education/academic achievement? Teacher quality? Spending per student? Better diet? Religious affiliation? Children per household?
Of course you haven't.
You pick a few numbers to suit your intended purpose and claim to have established correlation.
I can do the same and claim to prove that religion is the causal factor. Jews achieve higher than Baptists, for example.
But of course you are only interested in proving your racial superiority. Well guess what? Asian students beat the crap out of you racially inferior white boys.
10 years at the same school and NCLB is obviously the biggest obstacle education faces as it holds systems hostage to government funds. The thing about NCLB is that it could be probably be successful if we forced students and parents to take responsability for themselves or their childs education. There has been and will always be a small percentage of students(and people in general) that do not want to participate in what is best for society. Until we quit wasting funds on those that do not want to be productive students, or change our definition/laws of what a productive student is, NCLB will continue to be an empty hole that we try fixing by filling it with money. In the end everyone loses.
I've got to agree with Duff here, Mags.
An obvious flaw in your "positive correlation" is that you're comparing one dataset comprised of college bound students with another dataset comprised of the general population. You're assuming that the percentage of African Americans in the general population equals the percentage of African Americans taking the SAT/ACT.
IMO, you've failed to establish a "positive correlation" between these datasets.
I tell this story a lot. My first year there was a girl in my class that had an 75ish going into the final. She only needed a 20ish on the final(20%) to pass for the semester. Well she apparently stole an answer sheet and filled out a scantron sheet prior to the final. When she thought I wasnt looking she switched it with the scantron I had given her:nono: Following class I called her mother and told her her daughter had recieved a 0 on her final for cheating and that she would fail my class for the semester. When I look back I laugh just thinking about trying to fail a student for cheating. Now days we are "encouraged" to have students pass our classes. Many more examples, but if that same scenario played out today I would be the one being chewed out, not her:facepalm:
Duffy - clearly didn't read my post at all. I was making the point that, choosing collective bargaining as the reason students do better was asinine.
I showed ONE example of why it likely couldn't be. I also said there area many variables.
Read the whole post, and think next time.
Way more fun for you than me :SIB ). I'm afraid to see where the purple are headed compared to the rest of the division now, too. Thankfully I've only supported the since I've been up here - Chiefs fan from the formative years and still am. Nice to see them back a bit. Packers have a nice team put together now, sadly...
Now, back to the subject.
Now, back to the subject.
NOT ALL OF THEM BEAT THE CRAP OUT OF WHITEY
and NOT this INFERIOR WHITEBOY , graduated with Honors in EE and only ONE Asian had a class score better than me..All He did was Study ..............
It's good to be Back in the PF...
Have been thinking about the subject at hand and I am still siding with the teachers. Not so happy about the Dems leaving the state but am not upset that the teachers protested.
Do you guys really think that teachers are overpaid? Considering the effort that goes behind the scenes and taking work home to grade papers or prepare curriculum. Yeah there are some bad teachers but in all fairness my teachers were pretty damn good and that was 20 years ago in Wisconsin.
I think the governor could put his "foot down" on other state paid employment first, not the teachers. I used the state grain employees as an example and those guys didn't have to have the education a teacher needs or have to repay loans. I guess it is not hard to believe that insurance people would be against the teachers in this.
Do you guys really think that teachers are overpaid? Considering the effort that goes behind the scenes and taking work home to grade papers or prepare curriculum. Yeah there are some bad teachers but in all fairness my teachers were pretty damn good and that was 20 years ago in Wisconsin.
I think the governor could put his "foot down" on other state paid employment first, not the teachers. I used the state grain employees as an example and those guys didn't have to have the education a teacher needs or have to repay loans. I guess it is not hard to believe that insurance people would be against the teachers in this.
Could you briefly sum up what the governor is trying to take from the teachers. Could you briefly sum up what the teaches gain from the union specifically? I truely do not know. Thanks!
A special thanks for the dialogue from Chadman, UGA12, yyz & a few others.
The three things that bother me the most about this situation in the Badger state:
1) The Koch brothers (whom I know well) were the governor's largest campaign contributor through at least 3 different PAC's. Gov. Walker is being used as a pawn by the second largest private company in the world. Koch does alot of business in Wisconsin.
2) Why were 3 pieces of legislation passed totalling 140 million when there is such a "budget crisis"? The state's budget, done on a two year basis, has faced much larger deficits in the past and resolved without attacking a long standing symbol of democracy.
3) Ramroding legislation into law has never been popular. The bill was introduced a week ago, and there was an attempt to pass it in 3 days with a budget deadline of June 30. The governor campaigned on reducing spending, but never mentioned collect bargaining. That doesn't pass the smell test, just like the cherry picking of which workers are excluded in the bill. What's the big hurry all about? It portrays a sense of being a back alley deal, even if it wasn't meant to be.
The three things that bother me the most about this situation in the Badger state:
1) The Koch brothers (whom I know well) were the governor's largest campaign contributor through at least 3 different PAC's. Gov. Walker is being used as a pawn by the second largest private company in the world. Koch does alot of business in Wisconsin.
2) Why were 3 pieces of legislation passed totalling 140 million when there is such a "budget crisis"? The state's budget, done on a two year basis, has faced much larger deficits in the past and resolved without attacking a long standing symbol of democracy.
3) Ramroding legislation into law has never been popular. The bill was introduced a week ago, and there was an attempt to pass it in 3 days with a budget deadline of June 30. The governor campaigned on reducing spending, but never mentioned collect bargaining. That doesn't pass the smell test, just like the cherry picking of which workers are excluded in the bill. What's the big hurry all about? It portrays a sense of being a back alley deal, even if it wasn't meant to be.
The subject was academic achievement, eh? I don't know where Paul Tibbets ranked, but you're to be congratulated on outperforming all of your Asian classmates...unless there was only one.
To my understanding he is trying to take their right to collective bargain thus trying to union bust somewhat. My comments were directed more at some of the statements I read by people here who support this and who have suggested that teachers are overpaid when there are other union state employees he could go after instead of teachers.
What do they gain? The ability to bargain for wage, standard raise, pension, benefits. I mean they can bargain without a union but I would think they have a better chance to succeed with a union.
BP
I value good teachers also, I had some in school and some bad ones, I also saw some good ones with my kids and some bad ones. Some of the guys of my generation went to college got a teaching degree to avoid the draft and Nam.
It is all about decisions, they made the decision to teach, not you or me, the taxpayer needs to cut his outgo and has because his pay has been cut and his property value has been dropping.
Less property tax, less income tax, and less sales tax, is the result.
Teachers pay is not a big issue with me as much as the upper admin's is. Saw some crazy compensation numbers on Mish's blog about a month ago, when the 11th hour Illinois tax got passed.
I know my health care went up 43% first of the year, and I only get a 50 cents match on my 401K up to 6%. Some of the local emplyer's cut the match out totally, so consider myself fortunate.
I do disagree with high school aged kids being hauled in for the demonstration and wonder about the liability if someone got hurt. I know I would want my children either in school or under the care of family.
What is the message the Donkeys on the run are sending to the public? Maybe the teachers and union's see it as support, but I see it as shirking your duties.
RIP Mr Hoskins, and thanks for all you did as a teacher. He was our high school Biology & health and drivers Ed teacher, also coached Varsity Basketball and Baseball. Top notch guy and highly respected in our school. Taught in the 60's and 70's.
Not being critical just making a comment.
I value good teachers also, I had some in school and some bad ones, I also saw some good ones with my kids and some bad ones. Some of the guys of my generation went to college got a teaching degree to avoid the draft and Nam.
It is all about decisions, they made the decision to teach, not you or me, the taxpayer needs to cut his outgo and has because his pay has been cut and his property value has been dropping.
Less property tax, less income tax, and less sales tax, is the result.
Teachers pay is not a big issue with me as much as the upper admin's is. Saw some crazy compensation numbers on Mish's blog about a month ago, when the 11th hour Illinois tax got passed.
I know my health care went up 43% first of the year, and I only get a 50 cents match on my 401K up to 6%. Some of the local emplyer's cut the match out totally, so consider myself fortunate.
I do disagree with high school aged kids being hauled in for the demonstration and wonder about the liability if someone got hurt. I know I would want my children either in school or under the care of family.
What is the message the Donkeys on the run are sending to the public? Maybe the teachers and union's see it as support, but I see it as shirking your duties.
RIP Mr Hoskins, and thanks for all you did as a teacher. He was our high school Biology & health and drivers Ed teacher, also coached Varsity Basketball and Baseball. Top notch guy and highly respected in our school. Taught in the 60's and 70's.
Not being critical just making a comment.
I guess one of the problems I am seeing is that it was posted that Wisc. pays very little and yet Ga. pays very well(per the stats posted previously in this thread). How does this happen when Ga. has no collective bargaining and Wisc. does:shrug: I am sure there are other things that they get/have that we do not, but from a pay standpoint it appears the union offers very little in comparison to Ga. salary wise.
Yep I agree with this.. THose wages that the Superintendents that Doggie supplied is high in my opinion. Never realized they get paid that much.. Yes and high school kids should have their asses in school and not out there protesting but what the hell do I know. I hope if Walker is going to go after one he goes after some others.
