Scott Walker new Gov of Wisconsin

[Mags]

Good conversation Mags. A couple questions/points. Were the union leaders not there? How many were/were not? I'm guessing that many if not most were, as you are correct they are responsible to take that role, but that's just a guess.

I'm not familiar with how things go in Wisconsin, but in Minnesota I don't think it's the teacher's responsibility to get a replacement when they are not there. In fact, pretty sure it's not allowed, but that's just a guess - probably strict rules about that kind of thing. And as for sick days - who in here hasn't taken one for reasons less important than what this means to these teachers? I certainly have - quite a few of them in my 35-40 years of working.

What exactly would a few labor representatives been able to do - as you suggest - showing up there at the capital to represent the thousands of teachers, friends and family members this will effect? Do you honestly think there would have been any kind of negotiation? If so, what could possibly make you think that - listening to Walker and his absolute refusal to negotiate stance? And who will be next, possibly? Yep - the other union workers like fire and police workers, who were also out there supporting them.

As for the teachers going after school, I don't have the numbers. There were still thousands there late last night from what reports showed. But seems to make sense to be there when the whole things is being protested - which was on the timetable of Walker and the republicans - there can be no doubt about that, can there? You're suggesting the best thing for teachers across the state of Wisconsin (or other states, where this will surely happen soon) should wait until about 4:00 pm after their classes (if that's all they have to do at school that day), head to Madison from all over the state and make a strong statement outside at night, and then head back home to prepare for school, get up and teach, then head back to Madison for another evening of protests? Or, better yet, let the handful of union reps stand out there and yell a lot at republican lawmakers?

Sorry, I just don't get that line of thinking, except for the obvious benefit to Walker, the republicans, and those that share their agenda.

Chad. I do enjoy your responses.

What's the end game here? I understand they are frustrated, but... Is this doing them ANY good?

It isn't going to change anything (according to what is being said). It is causing more ill will towards the teachers and public employees. I would venture that most people blamed the "greedy unions" - but now that teachers are causing schools to be cancelled, a lot of parents are starting to blame the teachers.

I just don't see what the Dems will gain here? The Dem senators made things worse for themselves, the teachers have also. And I really doubt it will change anything in the bill.

Maybe it was just cathartic to go and complain? I CAN understand that - I would have done the same thing during the health care debate if I lived in DC. And I know that would have both made me feel better and be more frustrated at the same time.

That's likely all that will come out of this - in the meantime, the kids/parents lose. That doesn't seem like a good result to me.

 

[yyz]

I just want to know how any of this is going to help my fellow citizens?

(Other than the great Wisconsinites on welfare....)



Sure, it sounds great to say the deficit is getting cut, and the budget balanced......but what does that really mean to you and me?


Absolutely nothing.

 

[Trampled Underfoot]

You are joking yourself if you think the public doesn't want health care for everyone. People have wanted it for years.

 

[GENO]

You are joking yourself if you think the public doesn't want health care for everyone. People have wanted it for years.

NOT FOR ILLEGALS !

 

[Trampled Underfoot]

NOT FOR ILLEGALS !

Do you believe in God, GENO?

 

[yyz]

You are joking yourself if you think the public doesn't want health care for everyone. People have wanted it for years.

Yeah, but they want it to fall from the sky!

 

[The Sponge]

You are joking yourself if you think the public doesn't want health care for everyone. People have wanted it for years.

yeah a handful of wackjobs that call themselves the tea party (funded by a bunch of con artist cause these people are to stupid to realize it)start a ruckuss and that means that every American wants our health care to stay the same which would be expensive. Guys like Mags want everyone to believe that every American was against this since his boys on nitwit neocon radio kept screaming it for all to hear. Imagine that. All Americans against health care reform cause they rather pay for it out the ass instead. Almost like when dogs wants to protect the oil companies profits at all expense, while they soak everyone in the process.

 

[GENO]

Do you believe in God, GENO?

Yes, I do and I also believe that Illegals should too, however it would seem to me they don't or they would render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, as it says in the Good Book :0074

 

[GENO]

I ain't got time to be in here and get my handicapping done too, you guys settle this one without me for awhile:142smilie

 

[UGA12]

You certainly didn't have a majority who wanted Obama care!

Voting someone into office doesn't mean you will agree with everything they will try to slide past.

Does it mean you have to accept it? To a point, yes. Does it mean you have to give up your right to say, "I don't agree with you, sir."........Not a chance in hell.


And again: Pay is not the unions issue in this matter.

1. Walker COMPLETELY has refused to even have ONE SINGLE talk with any union since being governor.

He says nothing other than, "We're broke. There's nothing to negotiate with them."

2. He NEVER even hinted at breaking up the unions, and that is exactly what he is trying to do, no matter how YOU wish to see it.

Leaving us with only the power to bargain our wages DOWN, is really no bargain....is it?

Our union dues are currently automatically taken from our pay. Walker is doing away with that. Why? Why would he care how our dues get paid? This way....he's hoping a good chunk of the union members will try to "recoup their losses" from his fiasco by quitting the union, thus making IT weaker.

3. He's making each union be voted on each and every year by the workers, to keep it as the bargaining unit. Great! Can we have another election EVERY year, too?

Why doesn't he just have the Republicans pass a law making elections in Wisconsin illegal, and he and the Republicans can stay in power forever? He sure as shit seems to have that authority.

Serious question yyz, how does a forced union such as in your case benefit you any better than the teacher organizations we have here in my right to work state. According to stats in this thread Ga. is one of the top paid states and yet we have no official union. I guess what I am asking is how does forcing people to pay dues to be part of something benefit anyone as much as the union itself. I am not being cross, I just honestly would like to know what you get out of the "Unions" that I dont get out of my "Organization" that I choose to participate in. Thanks!

 

[Trampled Underfoot]

Yes, I do and I also believe that Illegals should too, however it would seem to me they don't or they would render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, as it says in the Good Book :0074

I don't think God gives a shit who is an immigrant and who isn't. Maybe you should actually act like he would instead of picking only the stuff you want out of the book.

 

[Trampled Underfoot]

I ain't got time to be in here and get my handicapping done too, you guys settle this one without me for awhile:142smilie

How long does it take you to buy 3 points and lay -195 on each play? :facepalm:

 

[Trench]

There is no way you can be that obtuse.

On the contrary, Mags is every bit as obtuse as this thread would suggest he is.

 

[yyz]

Serious question yyz, how does a forced union such as in your case benefit you any better than the teacher organizations we have here in my right to work state. According to stats in this thread Ga. is one of the top paid states and yet we have no official union. I guess what I am asking is how does forcing people to pay dues to be part of something benefit anyone as much as the union itself. I am not being cross, I just honestly would like to know what you get out of the "Unions" that I dont get out of my "Organization" that I choose to participate in. Thanks!

Well I'm not working for the school system, so I can't help you there.

There is no doubt that unions, unfortunately, save the jobs of people who should be fired. I see it time and time again just where I work. But, on the other side of the coin...you could lose/keep your job through your relationship, good/bad, with your bosses in a non-union shop.


If you belong to the YMCA you know going in that you have to pay dues. You can either pay them, or not sign up. Same with a job.


I do find it quite startling that only 5 states do not have collective bargaining for educators, and they are all the worst scoring schools in the country:

Those states and their ranking on ACT/SAT scores:

South Carolina 50th
North Carolina 49th
Georgia 48th
Texas 47th
Virginia 44th

Wisconsin is 2nd

 

[Chadman]

I do find it quite startling that only 5 states do not have collective bargaining for educators, and they are all the worst scoring schools in the country:

Those states and their ranking on ACT/SAT scores:

South Carolina 50th
North Carolina 49th
Georgia 48th
Texas 47th
Virginia 44th

Wisconsin is 2nd

If in fact these numbers are true - which I assume they are - this is very revealing to me. It really would explain a lot about the value of teachers and student performance. And how collective bargaining helps teachers, which helps students, which helps performance - which should be the most important thing if people really care about the kids.

I saw a lot of students (of their own accord) out supporting the teacher's union, too. I think that says a lot, and sounds like Wisconsin teachers are doing a great job.

 

[yyz]

If in fact these numbers are true -

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/states/USCHARTsat.html

 

[UGA12]

Well I'm not working for the school system, so I can't help you there.

There is no doubt that unions, unfortunately, save the jobs of people who should be fired. I see it time and time again just where I work. But, on the other side of the coin...you could lose/keep your job through your relationship, good/bad, with your bosses in a non-union shop.


If you belong to the YMCA you know going in that you have to pay dues. You can either pay them, or not sign up. Same with a job.


I do find it quite startling that only 5 states do not have collective bargaining for educators, and they are all the worst scoring schools in the country:

Those states and their ranking on ACT/SAT scores:

South Carolina 50th
North Carolina 49th
Georgia 48th
Texas 47th
Virginia 44th

Wisconsin is 2nd

Sorry, I assumed when you said "Leaving us with only the power to bargain our wages DOWN, is really no bargain....is it?" that you worked for the school system. What do you feel the correlation is between the numbers above and Collective Bargaining?

 

[Trench]

I do find it quite startling that only 5 states do not have collective bargaining for educators, and they are all the worst scoring schools in the country:

Those states and their ranking on ACT/SAT scores:

South Carolina 50th
North Carolina 49th
Georgia 48th
Texas 47th
Virginia 44th

Wisconsin is 2nd

I agree with Chad. That is indeed revealing.

From a strictly statistical standpoint, coincidence can immediately be ruled out... :142smilie

After seeing those numbers, I think any logical person would have to conclude that the states that do not provide collective bargaining most likely: a) do not attract the best teachers, b) do not place a high value on public education, and c) likely have some of the smallest per-student budgets.

 

[Woodson]

This thread could be a discussion of the first domino fall in a series yet to come.

Several have used insults in their discussion and asked about religious beliefs.

How about all the intellectuals use just that in this one thread.

I'm sure together as a group, you guys could really do well in debating the issue.

:0008

 

[UGA12]

This thread could be a discussion of the first domino fall in a series yet to come.

Several have used insults in their discussion and asked about religious beliefs.

How about all the intellectuals use just that in this one thread.

I'm sure together as a group, you guys could really do well in debating the issue.

:0008

You have to pick and choose who to engage around these parts if you want dialogue rather than venom. You would think avoiding someone and their posts like the Plague would tell them you dont care about their verbal diarrhea, but they always find their way to "enlighten you/me/us"