OK Mags ,ill agree with some of your issues.However your so caught up with TT ,that the Farve issue althou minor is the driving force behind your anger.
Id be more concerned on how Im gonna draft and spend in free agency,then whos QBing my team as you already HAVE A QB,but your just not thinking correctly.
Its time to get off the Farve thing and look forward.Who we drafting,free agency,possibly trading.......etc those are the real issues!
GL!
Rusty:
I realize you don't follow the Packers. But you are way off base on a couple of issues.
1. The Packers had 0 running game last year, until Grant came on in week 8. ZERO. Yet they won games behind Favre and the passing game.
2. Grant in 2008 has 1100 yards and is 9th in the NFL in rushing yards. It's not like he's had a bad season. He ranks ahead of such players as Frank Gore, Tomlinson, Brandon Jacobs and Westbrook.
So actually, for the entire season, Rodgers has benefited from a MUCH better running game than last season. Look in up last year in the 1st 7 games - you'll be amazed.
Rodgers is easily a Pro-Bowler? Not so fast, young one. The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel just had a survey of NFL scouts in an article last week. It was felt that Rodgers was the 19th best QB in the league. Opinions were mixed at best regarding his future - some scouts said this is the best he will get and has no more upside, other scouts liked his upside.
Rodgers is no lock to ever get in the Pro Bowl, much less win an MVP (or 2 or 3 MVPs). He is not a 22 year old rookie who will continue to mature - he is already 25 years old.
It takes a special type of quarterback to bring your team from behind late in the 4th quarter. That's why they made such a big deal about Elway's 4th quarter comebacks. And possibly why Rodgers is 0-8 in 4th quarter comebacks (although admittedly Monday's debacle can't be put on Aaron's shoulders).
I thought you may be interested in what the scouts (who probably know a lot more than you or I) think about Rodgers performance and potential. Below is the Journal Sentinel article I referenced. As you can see from the comments and comparisons, the scouts do NOT think all the highly of him currently.
Keep in mind this is in the Miwaukee paper - so any article you would think would be biased toward Rogers and the Packers, not against them.
Grade point
Taking a look at how Rodgers rates
Posted: Dec. 20, 2008
Chicago - At this point in his fledgling career, Aaron Rodgers of the Green Bay Packers rates as the 19th-best quarterback in the National Football League.
That was the conclusion last week in a survey of four executives in personnel for other NFL teams, including two from the AFC and two from the NFC. Each of them has been a scout in the NFL for at least 10 years.
Undoubtedly, some of the Packers' coaches and scouts would argue that Rodgers should be ranked higher. General manager Ted Thompson gave Rodgers a five-year extension worth $63.52 million in new money ($20 million guaranteed) after his seventh start, saying he didn't even need that long to make his evaluation.
If there was ever any doubt that Rodgers was Thompson's guy, there could be none after that statement.
Although the
four personnel men have never coached Rodgers or worked for the Packers during Rodgers' four-year career,
they are more than qualified to make such a judgment. Three work for teams that played Green Bay this season, meaning they had to break down many games of the Packers'. And, as a general rule, they scan through every NFL game every week.
To start, 21 backup quarterbacks with legitimate ability were identified to go with the other 31 starters. Then each of the scouts was asked whether they would take Rodgers in comparison to those 52 players. There were no qualifiers other than injured players were considered healthy; the scouts seemed to make their choices on the basis of winning now.
Twelve quarterbacks were chosen over Rodgers by a 4-0 vote: Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Ben Roethlisberger, Jay Cutler, Drew Brees, Eli Manning, Tony Romo, Carson Palmer, Matt Ryan, Donovan McNabb, Philip Rivers and Kurt Warner.
Three were chosen over Rodgers by a 3-1 margin: Brett Favre, Jake Delhomme and Vince Young.
Three finished in a 2-2 tie with Rodgers: Jason Campbell, Chad Pennington and Jeff Garcia.
Nine finished behind Rodgers by a 3-1 margin: Joe Flacco, David Garrard, Matt Schaub, Trent Edwards, Kyle Orton, Matt Leinart, JaMarcus Russell, Sage Rosenfels and Daunte Culpepper.
Rodgers won by 4-0 over the other 25.
Two scouts ranked Rodgers No. 21, a third ranked him No. 20 and the fourth ranked him No. 14. The average was No. 19.
Entering the week, Rodgers was tied for eighth in passer rating at 91.8. His predecessor, Favre, ranked 15th at 86.5.
Here are excerpts from the interviews followed by my comment:
"It's hard to follow a legend. I think he's played well. He's not a rookie but he's not much more than a rookie, in my mind. He's shown a lot of ability. Mike (McCarthy) is a good offensive coach and is part of the reason Aaron's had success. I don't think he's the reason they're losing." - NFC scout
Based on Rodgers' first two training camps, it was beginning to look like he might turn out to be another Rich Campbell. He has come a long, long way.
"All those guys behind Favre moved on and had success. That's your measuring stick right there. Pretty good group." - NFC scout
Mark Brunell, Matt Hasselbeck, Aaron Brooks, even Ty Detmer had excellent careers based on where they were drafted. All learned from Favre, as did Rodgers.
"The biggest concern going in was the durability. He has managed to hang in and take some hits. He doesn't play as big as he is. His frame doesn't look like he's 218. Naturally, he's probably a 190 guy. I don't think there was ever a doubt on his toughness. It's just that he was so fragile." - AFC scout
This scout predicted in the second week of September that Rodgers wouldn't last more than eight games. Rodgers allayed some fears about his durability by playing through a sprained right shoulder. That was highly impressive.
"His arm is OK. It's good enough to make all the throws, but it's not anything special." - AFC scout
After evaluating Rodgers coming out of California, former St. Louis coach Mike Martz listed arm strength as his top concern, followed by the ability to read a defense, react and go through a progression. "I could be wrong about both," Martz said in December 2005. He probably was. With increased overall strength and a less rigid delivery, Rodgers now has a good arm.
"He hasn't given them the ability to get rid of the ball quick to help his protection." - NFC scout
Rodgers has been at fault for seven of the 30 sacks (23.3%). In 18 games last season, Favre was responsible for three of his 16 sacks (18.8%). Rodgers did hold the ball too long early; six of his seven were in the first nine games. He has been much better of late.
"He has some feel for escaping stuff. He has some ability to create. But he's not somebody that you're scared of when he pulls the ball down." - AFC scout
Rodgers has rushed 53 times for 214 yards, a 4.0-yard average, and four touchdowns. Favre's best rushing season was 1993 with 216 yards. Favre had 154 yards and one touchdown in his last five years.
"Best in the NFC North? Maybe. It's not even close to being etched in stone. You put him and (Kyle) Orton before he got hurt, their numbers were somewhat similar. And (Tarvaris) Jackson has really been looking good." - NFC scout
Agreed. Orton was doing a lot with a lesser supporting cast before his ankle injury. And Jackson does have a ton of ability.
"I don't know how much of a big-play guy he is. And I don't know that he can put stuff together when you need it as opposed to accumulating stats. To me, the key is whether a guy can go out and win a game. He hasn't done that. Even Favre, as a young guy, he'd (mess) stuff up, but when it came down to the end he'd find a way. Like Steve McNair, he may play awful but would make plays when they needed to win the game. Even Vince Young is 18-11 as a starter." - AFC scout
Rodgers had chances in the last few minutes to win six games: Tampa Bay, Tennessee, at Minnesota, Carolina, Houston and Jacksonville. He's 0-6. It's the big, black blot on his season.
"I just don't see him being able to take those guys and say, 'All right, we're going to score.' It's the intangible things you have to look at with this guy. And how many guys do you know just become a leader? They don't just become one." ? NFC scout
The departures of Favre and Rob Davis left the Packers almost bankrupt of leadership. Rodgers is 25. Hard to say what he might be like at 28 or 30.
"He's got the confidence of a great player without being a great player. Aaron's a little bit like Jay Cutler, but Cutler's a (jerk). Aaron would be that cocky fraternity guy in college that you just want to smack upside the head sometimes." - AFC scout
Rodgers, with a 35 on the Wonderlic intelligence test, is the smartest guy in many rooms. In his first two seasons, he did come across as somewhat arrogant. But he learned from Favre what teammates want from their quarterback. Can Rodgers be hard to coach? Perhaps.
"The first two years it was questionable whether he'd ever play a snap in the league. I think he's maxed out. I just think whatever you have right now is what he will be. He may not lose games, which certainly isn't a bad thing, but I don't think they ever will win games because of him." - AFC scout
How many good NFL quarterbacks didn't have a Division I offer out of high school and had to play one year at a junior college? In October 2005, the late Bill Walsh echoed this when he said: "What you see is what you get. He doesn't have great more potential that doesn't show. He's part of a system and a real outstanding coach in college and all of that. I don't know where it's going to take him."
"I'm not sure there is a ceiling on him. . . outside of the intangible factors. I mean, he can do everything. Athletically? There's no ceiling. And he's only been a starter for one year." - NFC scout
Not only is Rodgers athletic, he is driven to succeed. His background indicates that.
"He had so much success early in the year. I didn't think he would be able to see the field but he did a very good job going away from his No. 1 receiver. Then he got the big contract. Did he think he arrived when he got the contract? I don't know." ? AFC scout
Before being handed millions, Rodgers' passer rating was 98.8 and the team was 4-3. Since then, his rating is 85.5 and the team is 1-6. Unless you've had a seven- eight-figure bank account, no one can say what it's like.
"They gave him all that money after how many weeks? Would you give it to him today? I'm not so sure outside of trying to prove what you did was right. He hasn't played up to that money right now." ? NFC scout
No one knew what Rodgers would do this season. No one in the league was under greater scrutiny.
Everyone, including these scouts, is kidding themselves if they try to draw a bead on Rodgers. He will need at least 25 starts to start doing that.
Right now, he's No. 19. Could he become a top-10? Yes. Could he move among the top five? Maybe.
So far, so good. The Packers have a legitimate starting quarterback. But this is only the beginning of a long process they can only hope ends well.
