WE ARE! IN DENIAL!

[fatdaddycool]

Marine will you please provide a link to all of the teachers who molested boys who went unpunished because administration knew it and did nothing...do you get the POINT?

FatDaddy...I'm not going to provide you the link to the INDEPENDENT report because you can look it up yourself.

It is a fact, in the report, that janitors witnessed Sandusky with a little boy but, were too afraid to report it because they thought they would lose their jobs.

For those, thankfully few, who need it spelled out...They Would Have Been Fired based on how leadership handled every other situation involving the football program. That is the institutional culture at PS.

There appears to be little difference between PS fans and alumni justifying their own perspective as when southerners justified their attitudes on race.

Sure you can dream up reasons why your viewpoint makes sense to you and try to minimize the injustice and horror but, the entire rest of the world has a clear view of the level of inhumanity that took place in the shower, in the head coaches office and in the administrative suite at PS.

Okay so because it was on an independent report, it must be true. I believe there was an independent report done on the Kennedy assassination, 9/11, Ted and Bob Kennedy, Barclay's Libor Scandal also and we know for sure that all those have nothing but the facts! The report is so truthful that they decided to use it as evidence right? No? But it is all true because it is written and since you established that you are the human race representative and speak for the "rest of the world" as only you can because you read the report. Thanks so much for that little tidbit. Now all Southerners are racist too.

So says azbob so shall it be!!!!

What the fuck do you know about the rest of the world or me for that matter. I live in the south Bob and so do you if you are from Arizona, and since you are a racist southerner maybe you should remove yourself from the argument.

You don't know shit about my view on this matter as I have never even expressed on this forum but because you THINK I have a certain take on it you bellow out some ignorant bullshit about racists and all the other inane drivel that is typed in that clusterfuck of a post.

You see Bob, I don't like and have never liked Penn State or Joe Paterno. thought he was out of touch in the 80's let alone the 2000's but you have no clue how I feel because you are busy building a bigger soap box.

I was only defending Marine and his right to have a fucking opinion without people calling him a baby killer and a liar.

So whatever you THINK my views are, you are dead fucking wrong and have no right to counsel me or anyone on this board when you make a statement like Southerners and their racism.

Here I will do a you.

These old, skinhead, ex welfare retirees that moved to Phoenix because the couldn't afford Florida are fucking up the immigration system.
Am I close? Sucks doesn't it.

Now could you please tell humanity that you may have misspoke. By the way, horror isn't the correct word to use there.

One more thing, why is it that my views are dreamed up and yours are fact? Because you say so right!?! So while you are standing around straining to pee, you decide that my views are all based in dreams and yours are all steeped in facts because you did the leg work. What the fuck ever bro. Carry on.

Hope that helps,
FDC

 

[Penguinfan]

No pretty much everyone involved has been taken to task. He's on the forefront because he is Penn State. He in fact had enough control to stop this and he didn't. As did the AD and the pres. They're all sick losers.

This is where perspective is getting lost. Joe Paterno is NOT Penn State. There is a whole world outside of football that happens in Happy Valley. A lot of great things happen because of that university.

People who hate PSU football want to paint Joe Paterno as the entirety of PSU, but he really isn't. He is the most recognizable figure, sure. That's because nobody really follows medical education as a sport or watched agricultural studies on prime time TV.

I understand the hatred, I really do. I hate all things Washington Capitals, everything. I hate them all, I hate their fans, the ownership as well as the players. The difference is I could separate my demand for punishment should Alex Ovechkin be found guilty of taking steroids to wanting him punished and not the entire organization shut down.

 

[MadJack]

The only question I have is should the program be shut down for one year or multiple years.

Marine...you keep saying "bad things happen" like this is getting a flat tire or a workplace accident or even someone paying athletes.

Over 14 years, the janitors knew, coaches knew and it's not a major leap to think some Paterno family members knew. The error in your analogy is that if this event happened and a professor or administrative staff member was involved, they would have immediately been turned over to law enforcement. Sandusky was not turned in to protect the FOOTBALL program.

The leadership at PS didn't even look the other way and quietly let Sandusky go or get him some help...they instead helped to facilitate further raping of children to protect the FOOTBALL program.

Take Paterno out of the equation, the culture and leadership at PS was so sick that they weighed their options and chose to protect the program.

The last two posts by GJN are exactly right. Marine...it's very hard to justify and write off the anal rape of multiple children, stop trying.

It is becomming even more amazing that the leadership at PS apparrently still doesn't get it, the Paterno family doesn't get it and there are some people posting here that would rather write it off as bad things happen and, I guess, boys will be boys rather than understanding the detail of what actually occurred when people at that facility saw Sandusky walking around with a little boy and knew what was going to happen...just think about that for a moment.

Let the "student-athletes" immediately transfer to a new program and give them an extra year of eligibiity. That takes care of that issue and, if they are there because they love Penn State, they can stay and graduate keeping their scholarship.

Great post and well written.

yea, because uprooting a student athlete to another school, transferring the academic credits, intergrating with a new team, uprooting their life in the area and relocating themselves somwhere new, probably losing the scholarship money..

it's just that easy to transfer them.

You were defending Paterno all along and now you are defending the football program that nobody has an issue with.

The people posting against you are posting because you defended Paterno and now you have flipped everything around and, basically, changed the subject.

 

[kickserv]

"You were defending Paterno all along and now you are defending the football program that nobody has an issue with."

"The people posting against you are posting because you defended Paterno and now you have flipped everything around and, basically, changed the subject."


Oh so true......and glad I am not the only one who noticed that.

That is why I posted all of Marine's comments.......

 

[gjn23]

Am I comparing the incidents to each other? Am I comparing player bounties to child rape? No.

Am I comparing the punishment doled out to coaches accused of fostering a culture of corruption and it's impact down the line?
yes.

The saints leadership actively fostered a culture and mindset of inflicting injury to people and rewarded them for it.

Did paterno bring his players in the loop on this and actively pursuade them to participate? No.
This is what paterno meant when he said it wasn't a football issue. This didn't trickle down to the players and affect the way they operated in their actions. But, when people hear rape and scandal, they loose the ability to see anything else other than the ability to shout wildly for punishment.

But, dammit, we need to punish those players for being associated with the program.

who cares what paterno said and meant....everday he's being exposed as a liar and fraud

and in case you keep missing the point

IT IS A FOOTBALL ISSUE

a football coach used football rewards to entice kids to the football facility to perform rape....it was uncovered (as far back at 1998) and the head FOOTBALL coach used his power to control and cover up the entire issue (with the help of his ad, vp and pres)

and in case you're going to bring up the "chain of command" defense.....the old fuck was asked to retire years ago by his bosses....he said no.....who's in charge there???? the president advised this could have ramifications down the road.....he went with the coache's suggestion......PATERNO IS IN CHARGE of everything football on that campus....thus, this is a FOOTBALL and lack of control issue

i dont blame any of the current players but sure dont shed a tear for them of their "forced" to go play football at another school

hopefully the ncaa drops the hammer but knowing them and how they operate, not much will happen.

 

[MadJack]

Marine quotes...............ya just gotta love these.......



We will likely never know the absolute truth due to the death of paterno and the folks that are left... will all simply point to paterno as the guily ringleader since he isn't around anymore. Is it sad to see? Yes.

For the people with reason and common sense... don't worry. In a few years, Paterno's legacy will revert back to where it was prior to this scandal.

So you've got a situation where years earlier an incident was reported and moved up the food chain and no formal disciplinary action was taken.
A few years later the same incident happens and suddenly Paterno is fired and painted as a horrible person.


A higher authority - the District Attorney said there was nothing there to press forward with charges.

District Attorney > Joe Paterno

So we're destroying a man for his actions (or inactions) after someone higher than him has previously said - that was not a crime.

This is emotional based decision making at it's worst.


I?m seriously, and utterly SHOCKED at how these incidents being reported to the police and investigated, are being pinned on paterno.

Why isn't the sign for the police department being stripped down? Why are they etching his name off trophies, and not crucifying the people that actually had the specific power to stop this?


Do you really think that the head of a college football program can be everywhere all at once? You expect him to prop his ass up on a chair and sit by shower entrance all day long to make sure nothing happens?


OK, So i'll pose this question to you guys to answer. What SHOULD Paterno have done?
What else should Paterno have done? What could he have done, within his power, and legally speaking.


He gets some of the blame. But I strongly feel that people have gone way overboard with the punitive actions and villifications of him.

and for the idea above.. about comparing apples to coaches. I'm not deflecting it. I'm questioning why everyone else has been allowed to pass the buck and have it stop on paterno.
We should probably pin the economy problems on him too.



Hindsight is 20/20, and this happened almost 10 years ago. People are acting and thinking like it happened yesterday. So for the last 10 years, people have liked, and looked up to Paterno after this incident happened. And all of a sudden everything the man ever did is stained and tainted.


So what could he have done more? Hire guards? It's a fairly big football facility. One guard certainly wouldn't be enough. You'd need many to cover all the areas and nooks and crannies there. How much does that cost? Raise tuition to cover it, right? Have the Penn State Police do it? They already showed they couldn't or wouldn't. Have the football team take turns doing 4-6 hour shifts all day, every day? I can see how that would play out already...
Hire a PI? pffffffffffft.

Moral superiors, i only said that people overreacted to paterno's role in this and the punishments he has received are inappropriate and overdone.

You aren't just punishing Paterno - you're destroying an entire life's work.

Exactly!

 

[fatdaddycool]

Great post and well written.



You were defending Paterno all along and now you are defending the football program that nobody has an issue with.

The people posting against you are posting because you defended Paterno and now you have flipped everything around and, basically, changed the subject.

Wrong, care to try again? Sheesh. He hasn't changed the subject at all?!? Aren't we still talking about Penn State. I think Marine stated that everybody should be punished for their involvement. I think what he is saying, which makes sense since it is exactly what our justice system is supposed to do, is let's punish those involved. Not those that weren't. Since when do we as a country punish people because of their affiliations unless they were ACTUALLY INVOLVED. All Marine is stating is quit trying to say that it is time to burn down the program. Kill his family, and cut the throats of the entire football program. Who the hell are you to say that some kid that worked his fucking ass off to get a scholarship to a big time school deserves to have his dreams dashed because of the actions of another. Really? You let Pro190 back on here four fucking times and he was a wart every time. Shut the site down for a year then?? Sounds about as stupid as shutting down the football program. I don't know where you get that he changed the subject. Do you have an independent report also? Then again I don't know where you got the idea to jump on the bandwagon either. This is the United States dude, we don't punish the innocent. We punish the offenders and I have confidence that will be done.

Hope that helps,
FDC

 

[MadJack]

Wrong, care to try again? Sheesh. He hasn't changed the subject at all?!? Aren't we still talking about Penn State. I think Marine stated that everybody should be punished for their involvement. I think what he is saying, which makes sense since it is exactly what our justice system is supposed to do, is let's punish those involved. Not those that weren't. Since when do we as a country punish people because of their affiliations unless they were ACTUALLY INVOLVED. All Marine is stating is quit trying to say that it is time to burn down the program. Kill his family, and cut the throats of the entire football program. Who the hell are you to say that some kid that worked his fucking ass off to get a scholarship to a big time school deserves to have his dreams dashed because of the actions of another. Really? You let Pro190 back on here four fucking times and he was a wart every time. Shut the site down for a year then?? Sounds about as stupid as shutting down the football program. I don't know where you get that he changed the subject. Do you have an independent report also? Then again I don't know where you got the idea to jump on the bandwagon either. This is the United States dude, we don't punish the innocent. We punish the offenders and I have confidence that will be done.

Hope that helps,
FDC

Aren't we still talking about Penn State

This is where I stopped reading your post and haven't read further. Yet.

YOU don't know what I'm talking about because you missed other threads on the PATERNO subject. You aren't even qualified to post on this topic.

I am talking about Marine defending Paterno for months and months and many, many posts and all of a sudden, he changed the subject because he can't admit he was WRONG!

A whole different thread I am talking about along with kickserv.

See you Friday, dickhead. :toast:

 

[fatdaddycool]

who cares what paterno said and meant....everday he's being exposed as a liar and fraud

and in case you keep missing the point

IT IS A FOOTBALL ISSUE

a football coach used football rewards to entice kids to the football facility to perform rape....it was uncovered (as far back at 1998) and the head FOOTBALL coach used his power to control and cover up the entire issue (with the help of his ad, vp and pres)

and in case you're going to bring up the "chain of command" defense.....the old fuck was asked to retire years ago by his bosses....he said no.....who's in charge there???? the president advised this could have ramifications down the road.....he went with the coache's suggestion......PATERNO IS IN CHARGE of everything football on that campus....thus, this is a FOOTBALL and lack of control issue

i dont blame any of the current players but sure dont shed a tear for them of their "forced" to go play football at another school

hopefully the ncaa drops the hammer but knowing them and how they operate, not much will happen.

Did you read what you wrote before you hit submit? You would have serious heartache with getting sent to another school and losing your scholarship if it was you footing the bill chief. Also, you know that Joe Paterno spells Joe Paterno not football program right?? He was in charge of the program and HE made the call to cover it up and he is a sick fuck for not telling everybody. Okay, I get that but you can't blame the football program or punish them for the actions of others. What you are calling for only happens in a police state. We should shut down U-Haul for allowing the Unabomber to rent a truck, they could have stopped it damnit, while we are at it, lets skin those 9/11 survivors that brought the building down on those innocent people, lets kill everyone at every airline that has allowed a terrorist to sneak onto their planes. Pure ignorance.

 

[MadJack]

BTW, do you want me to bring you some sandwiches?

 

[fatdaddycool]

This is where I stopped reading your post and haven't read further. Yet.

YOU don't know what I'm talking about because you missed other threads on the PATERNO subject. You aren't even qualified to post on this topic.

I am talking about Marine defending Paterno for months and months and many, many posts and all of a sudden, he changed the subject because he can't admit he was WRONG!

A whole different thread I am talking about along with kickserv.

See you Friday, dickhead. :toast:

Bullshit!!!! Okay so Marine defended Paterno before and now that more information has come to bear he backed off of his previous stance somewhat and you think he now has to publicly admit that he spoke before having all the information. What if the opposite were true and Paterno turned out to not know what was going on? Would you be admitting any mistakes dickhead.

Besides, you will hear me before you see me............consider yourself lucky for it too!!:0008 :0008

 

[fatdaddycool]

BTW, do you want me to bring you some sandwiches?

Well fuck yeah. You want me to bring a tranny?

 

[MadJack]

Bullshit!!!! Okay so Marine defended Paterno before and now that more information has come to bear he backed off of his previous stance somewhat and you think he now has to publicly admit that he spoke before having all the information. What if the opposite were true and Paterno turned out to not know what was going on? Would you be admitting any mistakes dickhead.

Besides, you will hear me before you see me............consider yourself lucky for it too!!:0008 :0008

I wasn't really involved in that topic, just amazes me the turn marine took on the subject, that's all. Kick knows where I'm coming from.

I admit when I'm wrong and admit it all the time. Cracks me up the people who can't admit it.

 

[MadJack]

Well fuck yeah. You want me to bring a tranny?

I'll bring you one of those too

 

[fatdaddycool]

I wasn't really involved in that topic, just amazes me the turn marine took on the subject, that's all. Kick knows where I'm coming from.

I admit when I'm wrong and admit it all the time. Cracks me up the people who can't admit it.

You weren't involved in the topic and you tell me I am not qualified to post on the subject. WTF? Well then you aren't qualified to either, or decide who is qualified to post on it either for that matter?!!? Besides, you called me a dickhead and you are wrong about that, may I have my public apology now.
opcorn2

 

[kickserv]

Jack what are the odds Marine (and PaSprint) admit that they were wrong?

I'd say rather low:mj07:

Of course fatdaddy was pretty pissed at me for posting all the quotes Marine said in the past:scared

He was all over me for that:lol:

 

[gjn23]

Did you read what you wrote before you hit submit? You would have serious heartache with getting sent to another school and losing your scholarship if it was you footing the bill chief. Also, you know that Joe Paterno spells Joe Paterno not football program right?? He was in charge of the program and HE made the call to cover it up and he is a sick fuck for not telling everybody. Okay, I get that but you can't blame the football program or punish them for the actions of others. What you are calling for only happens in a police state. We should shut down U-Haul for allowing the Unabomber to rent a truck, they could have stopped it damnit, while we are at it, lets skin those 9/11 survivors that brought the building down on those innocent people, lets kill everyone at every airline that has allowed a terrorist to sneak onto their planes. Pure ignorance.

can you find me one time where ncaa sanctions against a "program" DIDNT hurt the current players who had "nothing" to do with the infractions?

and spare me the woe-is-me what are the players going to do.....95% of those football players will get a free ride at another school

and you still miss the point......as soon as those in charge of the FOOTBALL program and those in charge of the UNIVERSITY decided it was better to cover up the scandal to protect the program vs going to the authorities to protect innocent kids... it became an issue of a football program gone unchecked.

in the end, you'll likely get your way and no sanctions will be levied because the ncaa only likes to punish kids and coaches not schools and/or presidents.....beacuse that's who the ncaa is presidents of schools.

 

[MadJack]

You weren't involved in the topic and you tell me I am not qualified to post on the subject. WTF? Well then you aren't qualified to either, or decide who is qualified to post on it either for that matter?!!? Besides, you called me a dickhead and you are wrong about that, may I have my public apology now.
opcorn2

You never READ the thread, dude.

NO sandwiches :nono:

 

[azbob]

FDC...you seem to be arguing with yourself because apparently no one cares about your point of view or your attempts to change the focus.

Let's all forget about PS and those little boys and discuss what happened to Pro190...good try.

I am glad you noted, "pure ignorance" at the end of your list of nonsensical analogies...exactly right on that one.

I think we have seen that PS administration and the board are impotent, the NCAA probably won't do anything because they are busy reprimanding teenagers for selling their own property and the people of the state of PA will be on the hook for the millions in settlements.

If we can assume the PS apologists agree that something there should change (we can only hope), go ahead and list your ideas for how to make that happen.

Mine are ciminal charges, no scholarships for five years, economic sanctions (voluntary by sponsors) and, at least, one year suspension of the football program with athletes keeping scholarships and with no loss of eligibility if they transfer but, they lose a year if they stay.

 

[fatdaddycool]

can you find me one time where ncaa sanctions against a "program" DIDNT hurt the current players who had "nothing" to do with the infractions?

and spare me the woe-is-me what are the players going to do.....95% of those football players will get a free ride at another school

and you still miss the point......as soon as those in charge of the FOOTBALL program and those in charge of the UNIVERSITY decided it was better to cover up the scandal to protect the program vs going to the authorities to protect innocent kids... it became an issue of a football program gone unchecked.

in the end, you'll likely get your way and no sanctions will be levied because the ncaa only likes to punish kids and coaches not schools and/or presidents.....beacuse that's who the ncaa is presidents of schools.

No dude, you are missing the point. That point is illustrated again in your post here. Just because it is YOUR OPINION does not make it right. Period. That is the point. You are not correct, nor did I miss anything. I couldn't care less about Penn State and you have an opinion, great, we have established that. Thanks. Do you really think you are an authority on the issue? Really? You are completely removed from everything going on other than news media and you think you can sit in judgement of other human beings based on some self absorbed idea of moral superiority. Maybe if you say it some more, more people will listen and we will see you on a Crossfire panel somewhere and we will all praise your insight and blindly follow you to the hallowed ground you must currently reside on.