Germany to bring criminal charges against rumsfeld

Mjolnir

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xclusive: Charges Sought Against Rumsfeld Over Prison Abuse
A lawsuit in Germany will seek a criminal prosecution of the former Defense Secretary and other U.S. officials for their alleged role in abuses at Abu Ghraib and Gitmo
By ADAM ZAGORIN
SUBSCRIBE TO TIMEPRINTE-MAILMORE BY AUTHOR



Posted Friday, Nov. 10, 2006
Just days after his resignation, former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is about to face more repercussions for his involvement in the troubled wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. New legal documents, to be filed next week with Germany's top prosecutor, will seek a criminal investigation and prosecution of Rumsfeld, along with Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, former CIA director George Tenet and other senior U.S. civilian and military officers, for their alleged roles in abuses committed at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison and at the U.S. detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

The plaintiffs in the case include 11 Iraqis who were prisoners at Abu Ghraib, as well as Mohammad al-Qahtani, a Saudi held at Guantanamo, whom the U.S. has identified as the so-called "20th hijacker" and a would-be participant in the 9/11 hijackings. As TIME first reported in June 2005, Qahtani underwent a "special interrogation plan," personally approved by Rumsfeld, which the U.S. says produced valuable intelligence. But to obtain it, according to the log of his interrogation and government reports, Qahtani was subjected to forced nudity, sexual humiliation, religious humiliation, prolonged stress positions, sleep deprivation and other controversial interrogation techniques.

Lawyers for the plaintiffs say that one of the witnesses who will testify on their behalf is former Brig. Gen. Janis Karpinski, the one-time commander of all U.S. military prisons in Iraq. Karpinski ? who the lawyers say will be in Germany next week to publicly address her accusations in the case ? has issued a written statement to accompany the legal filing, which says, in part: "It was clear the knowledge and responsibility [for what happened at Abu Ghraib] goes all the way to the top of the chain of command to the Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld ."

A spokesperson for the Pentagon told TIME there would be no comment since the case has not yet been filed.

Along with Rumsfeld, Gonzales and Tenet, the other defendants in the case are Undersecretary of Defense for Intelligence Stephen Cambone; former assistant attorney general Jay Bybee; former deputy assisant attorney general John Yoo; General Counsel for the Department of Defense William James Haynes II; and David S. Addington, Vice President Dick Cheney's chief of staff. Senior military officers named in the filing are General Ricardo Sanchez, the former top Army official in Iraq; Gen. Geoffrey Miller, the former commander of Guantanamo; senior Iraq commander, Major General Walter Wojdakowski; and Col. Thomas Pappas, the one-time head of military intelligence at Abu Ghraib.

Germany was chosen for the court filing because German law provides "universal jurisdiction" allowing for the prosecution of war crimes and related offenses that take place anywhere in the world. Indeed, a similar, but narrower, legal action was brought in Germany in 2004, which also sought the prosecution of Rumsfeld. The case provoked an angry response from Pentagon, and Rumsfeld himself was reportedly upset. Rumsfeld's spokesman at the time, Lawrence DiRita, called the case a "a big, big problem." U.S. officials made clear the case could adversely impact U.S.-Germany relations, and Rumsfeld indicated he would not attend a major security conference in Munich, where he was scheduled to be the keynote speaker, unless Germany disposed of the case. The day before the conference, a German prosecutor announced he would not pursue the matter, saying there was no indication that U.S. authorities and courts would not deal with allegations in the complaint.

In bringing the new case, however, the plaintiffs argue that circumstances have changed in two important ways. Rumsfeld's resignation, they say, means that the former Defense Secretary will lose the legal immunity usually accorded high government officials. Moreover, the plaintiffs argue that the German prosecutor's reasoning for rejecting the previous case ? that U.S. authorities were dealing with the issue ? has been proven wrong.

"The utter and complete failure of U.S. authorities to take any action to investigate high-level involvement in the torture program could not be clearer," says Michael Ratner, president of the Center for Constitutional Rights, a U.S.-based non-profit helping to bring the legal action in Germany. He also notes that the Military Commissions Act, a law passed by Congress earlier this year, effectively blocks prosecution in the U.S. of those involved in detention and interrogation abuses of foreigners held abroad in American custody going to back to Sept. 11, 2001. As a result, Ratner contends, the legal arguments underlying the German prosecutor's previous inaction no longer hold up.

Whatever the legal merits of the case, it is the latest example of efforts in Western Europe by critics of U.S. tactics in the war on terror to call those involved to account in court. In Germany, investigations are under way in parliament concerning cooperation between the CIA and German intelligence on rendition ? the kidnapping of suspected terrorists and their removal to third countries for interrogation. Other legal inquiries involving rendition are under way in both Italy and Spain.

U.S. officials have long feared that legal proceedings against "war criminals" could be used to settle political scores. In 1998, for example, former Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet ? whose military coup was supported by the Nixon administration ? was arrested in the U.K. and held for 16 months in an extradition battle led by a Spanish magistrate seeking to charge him with war crimes. He was ultimately released and returned to Chile. More recently, a Belgian court tried to bring charges against then Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon for alleged crimes against Palestinians.

For its part, the Bush Administration has rejected adherence to the International Criminal Court (ICC) on grounds that it could be used to unjustly prosecute U.S. officials. The ICC is the first permanent tribunal established to prosecute war crimes, genocide and other crimes against humanity.
 

smurphy

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DTB - Isn't this the same Germany that now leans Right and supports Bush?
 

kosar

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DTB - Isn't this the same Germany that now leans Right and supports Bush?

Correct, this is the same Germany that Wayne has prattled on about trying to make a 'point' about how the world is moving right, leaving the gays and blacks (and Jews by inference, but of course never mentioned, since they vote heavily democratic) isolated.

Interesting how this right ring bastion of Germany wants Rumsfeld in jail. Well, not that interesting, who the hell doesn't?
 

djv

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To be fair I don't think you can put it all on Rummy. I was not happy with him. BUT I know Cheney had his mouth open wider then even Rummy did. And had Bush' ear. And told Bush just what he wanted to here. Cheney made a killing on the Iraq war with Hal. I know I know his stuff was all in a blind trust. Yes he put it there and new what was in it to last dime. You know he's that kind. And new what was the best to make it grow over 12 million in last 4 years. Lets say he was not in C D's getting 4.5%
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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We'll see what develops--I doubt anything comes of it--don't think Chavez will get his death sentence request on Bush either ;)
++++++++++++++++
"Correct, this is the same Germany that Wayne has prattled on about trying to make a 'point' about how the world is moving right, leaving the gays and blacks (and Jews by inference, but of course never mentioned, since they vote heavily democratic) isolated."

For the record Matt--To show you how far you are off- We had to do paper and give reasons in college on what we deemed the most advanced race down to the lowest.

My #1 was Jewish---the only common ground the class had was unanimous on the lowest.

and your thoughts on same question--or do we get the PC dodge?
+++++++++++++++++++++++
almost forgot anyone wagering on Germany bring charges???

per--
The plaintiffs in the case include 11 Iraqis who were prisoners at Abu Ghraib, as well as Mohammad al-Qahtani, a Saudi held at Guantanamo, whom the U.S. has identified as the so-called "20th hijacker" and a would-be participant in the 9/11 hijackings.

Its nice to see the leopards in this thread haven't changed their spots on who they are rooting for:s2:
 
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shamrock

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Not sure I'm a leopard, but I'd have no sympathy if Rumsfeld crashed his car and lost a few limbs this evening. Even better if he somehow crashed into Cheney .:shrug:
 

kosar

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For the record Matt--To show you how far you are off- We had to do paper and give reasons in college on what we deemed the most advanced race down to the lowest.

My #1 was Jewish---the only common ground the class had was unanimous on the lowest.

and your thoughts on same question--or do we get the PC dodge?

Number 1 was Jewish, huh? Then why are they never included when you go on your rants about how black people(the 'lowest') vote Democratic?
 

gardenweasel

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Correct, this is the same Germany that Wayne has prattled on about trying to make a 'point' about how the world is moving right, leaving the gays and blacks (and Jews by inference, but of course never mentioned, since they vote heavily democratic) isolated.

Interesting how this right ring bastion of Germany wants Rumsfeld in jail. Well, not that interesting, who the hell doesn't?

rummy knew about the panties?...who knew?....

kosar..what`s wrong with you?....who are the plaintiffs?......it`s not the german gov`t.....it`s some left wing nut group with the help of some leftwing nutbars from our country...

and a few terrorists......lol


it's 11 iraqis and a saudi who went court-shopping and filed in germany because the country "provides 'universal jurisdiction' allowing for the prosecution of war crimes and related offenses that take place anywhere in the world."...

a previous lawsuit was filed on similar grounds and dismissed..

germany has it`s moonbats,too..only,merkel isn`t one of them...

kosar,i can`t be here 24-7 to keep you from spassing out...so brush up on your reading comprehension,eh?....

love,g.w.
 

kosar

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rummy knew about the panties?...who knew?....

kosar..what`s wrong with you?....who are the plaintiffs?......it`s not the german gov`t.....it`s some left wing nut group with the help of some leftwing nutbars from our country...

and a few terrorists......lol


it's 11 iraqis and a saudi who went court-shopping and filed in germany because the country "provides 'universal jurisdiction' allowing for the prosecution of war crimes and related offenses that take place anywhere in the world."...

a previous lawsuit was filed on similar grounds and dismissed..

germany has it`s moonbats,too..only,merkel isn`t one of them...

kosar,i can`t be here 24-7 to keep you from spassing out...so brush up on your reading comprehension,eh?....

love,g.w.

'Spassing out(sic)', huh. Ok.

That's some funny shit, coming from the biggest spaz on here.

It seems to me that it's just not a few stray 'moonbats' in Germany.
 

Chadman

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rummy knew about the panties?...who knew?....

kosar..what`s wrong with you?....who are the plaintiffs?......it`s not the german gov`t.....it`s some left wing nut group with the help of some leftwing nutbars from our country...

and a few terrorists......lol


it's 11 iraqis and a saudi who went court-shopping and filed in germany because the country "provides 'universal jurisdiction' allowing for the prosecution of war crimes and related offenses that take place anywhere in the world."...

a previous lawsuit was filed on similar grounds and dismissed..

germany has it`s moonbats,too..only,merkel isn`t one of them...

kosar,i can`t be here 24-7 to keep you from spassing out...so brush up on your reading comprehension,eh?....

love,g.w.


A couple of points of clarification from you, my good man, if you care to. I have not researched this too much, I just want to know what your claims are before I do.

1. Are these people terrorists? You note they are Iraqi's and one Saudi person. Were they somehow charged and convicted of terrorism somewhere? Maybe they were, possible, just looking for verification.

2. I'm guessing you would prefer that these charges be brought in the U.S., since the administration pushed through "The Military Commissions Act" earlier this year thanks to a favorable legislation, which prohibits prosecution of these exact types of situations regarding U.S. officials responsibilities with foreigners being held abroad.

3. The previous lawsuit was not dismissed, as you say, but it was dropped by the lead prosecutor after believing that US officials and courts would deal with the issue in a competent manner. How wrong could he have been, eh?

4. Now that Rummy "resigned" he will no longer have legal immunity provided high officials in the government. In essence, he will have to face the charges, if they go through with them.

That's enough for now. I thought, for once, I would address a couple of your random theories with some logic. I got most of my material from the Time Magazine article, for what that's worth. Just asking the questions put forth there, that make a lot of sense to me.

How about you, G-Dub?
 

The Sponge

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'Spassing out(sic)', huh. Ok.

That's some funny shit, coming from the biggest spaz on here.

It seems to me that it's just not a few stray 'moonbats' in Germany.

Kosar all nastiness aside. I find i agree with you about 90 percent of the time. Strange that a guy i agree with this much has this much bitterness towards me. Maybe i will come out to that Superbowl party and give you a peck on the cheek. Just one tho. Im spoken for.
 

smurphy

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That would be Fox University. Fred Barnes was his professor

If Barnes was the prof, then Hume must have been the guidance councelor.

Seriously though - Wayne - what college was that? What was the course?
 

The Sponge

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If Barnes was the prof, then Hume must have been the guidance councelor.

Seriously though - Wayne - what college was that? What was the course?

Smurph only he could think of something like that. Could you imagine writing a paper like this and having to read it in front of the class? A buddy of mine says the same type of stuff. He sees a bunch of rappers on TV he gets livid. The show Cribs i think its called makes him go bonkers. This buddy of mine is rich because of his parents and is probably the laziest person i have ever met. His father was a great doctor and was so driven. He was on my buddy's(his son) back constantly but when he died, what little work ethic my buddy had completely went down the drain. I never saw a person in my life that has it so easy but when he sees a person of another color have it as easy he feels this is not right.
 

djv

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I guess we should be nicer to old Rummy. Not sure why. His plan or one he approved of Cheneys sucked and still does. Iraq is so screwed up now we may never get it fixed.
Bottom line Germany can stay the hell OUT of our BUSINESS.
And what ever they do will mean ZERO.
But why We don't. US Americans hold some one like Rummies feet in the fire. As to help make sure same mistakes are not made again. I don't understand.
 

gardenweasel

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A couple of points of clarification from you, my good man, if you care to. I have not researched this too much, I just want to know what your claims are before I do.

1. Are these people terrorists? You note they are Iraqi's and one Saudi person. Were they somehow charged and convicted of terrorism somewhere? Maybe they were, possible, just looking for verification.

2. I'm guessing you would prefer that these charges be brought in the U.S., since the administration pushed through "The Military Commissions Act" earlier this year thanks to a favorable legislation, which prohibits prosecution of these exact types of situations regarding U.S. officials responsibilities with foreigners being held abroad.

3. The previous lawsuit was not dismissed, as you say, but it was dropped by the lead prosecutor after believing that US officials and courts would deal with the issue in a competent manner. How wrong could he have been, eh?

4. Now that Rummy "resigned" he will no longer have legal immunity provided high officials in the government. In essence, he will have to face the charges, if they go through with them.

That's enough for now. I thought, for once, I would address a couple of your random theories with some logic. I got most of my material from the Time Magazine article, for what that's worth. Just asking the questions put forth there, that make a lot of sense to me.

How about you, G-Dub?

1)...do your own legwork:D ...they were detainees...that we know...

2)first off...any asshole can bring a lawsuit....it has absolutely nothing to do with the german gov`t.....or intelligence or merit.....sponge could bring a lawsuit if he could figure it out.....he`d just have to find a friendly prosecutor willing to tow the line..

if you`re suggesting that american officials place themselves at the mercy of some "world court",that`s insane.....

3)i believe that the previous lawsuit was dismissed...i`m not a lawyer,but i believe that the prosecutor decides whether to go forward with a prosecution.....if he doesn`t,it`s a dismissal.....maybe the terminology`s off.....it doesn`t really matter...it didn`t happen...it`s gone...the prosecutor didn`t pursue it....nada...finis...

am i right?

4)again...you`re suggesting that american governmental officials should put themselves at the mercy of some "world court body" with an obvious anti-american bent...and again,your slip is showing...how`s about WE round up all the dictator reps at the u.n. (should be easy to spot in nyc) and start trials for crimes against humanity for all their tin-horn leaders?....

why were there no filings for when abu ghraib really was terror central?.... when they did have rape rooms, and industrial shredders for human use only..... oh,that`s right, because anyone who could file a complaint was no longer on the green side of the grass...or in one piece....

as opposed to the REAL abuse....you know, the 3 culturally sensitive square meals a day, the prayer rugs, free korans? ...where they complain about getting to fat...

yeah,that abuse...

lord...

whattaya think?...you get the drift of how stupid this is?.....this is liberal puppet theater....

synopsis:a lawsuit put forth by a bunch of jihadists and karpinski(these soldiers were under HER command,lol...no doubt she gets immunity?)l... that is like saddam bringing a wrongful death suit against bush for the death of his sons.....oops,i`d better shut up before I give the moonbats more ideas..


finally, the lawsuit hasn't even been filed yet. ....the times blurb is a friday afternoon freebie press release for the left-wing "center for constitutional rights"...milking rumsfeld's resignation for all the publicity they can get.....

theater...that`s what this is...

what disgusts me is that many democrats(unfortunately,even you,chad) would suport such a prosecution. ....thus, that age-old phrase to our enemies "do not mistake debate and disagreement within our political system for weakness. We will stand together as Americans.... etc"......

well, that is dead dead dead...many americans will happily throw their own countrymen to the socialist wolves overseas, and that is arguably something that has NEVER been true in u.s. history... until now....

be proud..
 
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MrChristo

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What kind of fked up assignment was that? What college did you go to?


Funny, funny, funny!...

...reading each post one by one (as you do I guess!) I thought exactly the same thing!!

I'm wondering who Dogs put in "last" place, just for pure amusement? :shrug:

And...also funnily enough, just guessing (sorry, if you're age sensitive DTB)...but when you were in college writing that paper, there were still "law officers" in the south brutally killing blacks for fun??
 
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