Scott Walker new Gov of Wisconsin

[UGA12]

UGA - I can respect these comments - especially the part about coaches. HS Coaches in WI really get paid poorly, when looking at the time they put in. Many of them do it, as it helps them get in the door for a teaching position.

In many of our schools, the coaches have a bigger impact on a kids life than teachers do - this is especially true in MPS, where they average truancy rate on a given day is 40%. Yes, every day 40% of the students are not iin school.

You can't blame the teachers for the poor perfoming students in Milwaukee - you can't teach students that aren't there.

But this help shows that money is not the reason our schools are failing in the US. It is a breakdown of the family structure - and the millions of illegitimate babies that are created each year, with no family structure around them. But I disgress.... need to get back on point:

GO SCOTT WALKER!

:mj07: We figured it up one time and it came out to about a buck and a half we were getting an hour for football:facepalm: Now that I am the Head Baseball coach I am making the big bucks of about 8 bucks an hour:00hour

 

[Duff Miver]

Duff:

Just heard a poll that said 64% of WI folks back Walker's proposal. Yes, it was on Fox news, as that is the only channel I can find that is covering this (even the local channels aren't doing so 24/7).

If that 64% is even CLOSE to true - that is a landslide and makes this decision even more of a no brainer.

Either way, it is a no brainer. We elected Walker to do this, and that is how democracy works.

I'm sure there will be more polls coming Monday - maybe even some by liberal pollers that you'll accept.....

That's quite a bit different than the polls which you previously quoted, but keep on looking, maybe you can find a Rush Limbaugh poll which will be even better support of your fantasy.

You see you can always find a poll which proves anything you like if the only requirement is that a majority see it your way.

Here's just one example from your gurus at Fox - 65% believe that the Tea Party is a "fruitless mix of racism and conspiracy theories". Therefore, according to you and Fox, that is the standard to be used.

http://wonkette.com/413645/fox-news-poll-yes-we-are-insanely-racist-crazy-people

I can find you polls which show a majority think this is a "Christian Country", that the moonwalk was a fake shot in a Hollywood studio, that all taxes should be eliminated, that we won the Vietnam War and all sorts of other bullshit.

I don't give a damn, and neither should you, what the majority want. The choice to belong to a union or not is no more the business of government than is requiring that everyone practice Christianity or Islam.

Polls and majority preference do not trump the freedom of personal choice, not in this country, not yet.

But with idiots like you around we may yet become a caliphate.

 

[Mags]

:mj07: We figured it up one time and it came out to about a buck and a half we were getting an hour for football:facepalm: Now that I am the Head Baseball coach I am making the big bucks of about 8 bucks an hour:00hour

Sounds about right.... they say teaching is an advocation one gets into because they enjoy it and enjoy being with kids, but really it is COACHING that fits these categories.

My HS coaches (baseball and Hoops) were the ones that I remember the most fondly from HS - by a wide margin.

 

[The Sponge]

Duff:

Just heard a poll that said 64% of WI folks back Walker's proposal. Yes, it was on Fox news, as that is the only channel I can find that is covering this (even the local channels aren't doing so 24/7).

If that 64% is even CLOSE to true - that is a landslide and makes this decision even more of a no brainer.

Either way, it is a no brainer. We elected Walker to do this, and that is how democracy works.

I'm sure there will be more polls coming Monday - maybe even some by liberal pollers that you'll accept.....

Wow a poll from Fox news about union busting gets 64 percent. Surprising. :142smilie

 

[Mags]

Ah, but there is the rub. People don't have a choice regarding the unions. Certain jobs require belonging the union.

Also, Walker's proposal doesn't make the unions go away. There are still there and still will be able to negotiate on wages - just not benefits.

You are such a big proponent of choice - it is shocking that you back the health care bill and the individual mandate. Doesn't seem like much "choice" there - you have to buy insurance.

Seems like you pick flip flop a lot, depending on the argument you want to make.

Both issues are the same, same situations, people in power make the decisions. Either you like both the healthcare bill and how it was done and what Walker is doing, or you hate both of them.

I think it is the fact that you are losing this time, and the Dem's are very sore losers - in fact crybabies that run away in some instances (see, Clocktower resort, Rockford IL).. :mj07:

 

[Mags]

Wow a poll from Fox news about union busting gets 64 percent. Surprising. :142smilie

OK, Sponge, here is a more meaningfull "Poll":

Scott Walker 52.3%
Tom Barrett 46.6%

That is the only meaningful poll in this case. WI elected Walker to do exactly what he is doing.

And he has every right to do so, and people expect him to do what he is doing.

THAT is democracy. To ignore the people's vote would be ignoring democracy.

 

[Trench]

You have ignored a question I've asked - I'd appreciate it if you answered it please: How is this any different than the Health Care Bill that Obama pushed through? Back then, you said that he had the right to do so since he won.

Why is this different? This is exactly what WI wanted - if we didn't, Feingold and Barrett would have won. But they didn't, did they?

Three threads of this stuff and you still don't get it, Mags. Scott Walker did not campaign as a union buster. This fight isn't about the budget, no matter how badly you want to pretend that it is.

Show me something from the gubernatorial race last year where Walker said his plan was to bust unions and kill off the last vestige of organized labor in this country -- collective bargaining. Don't waste your time. You won't find it. The mandate for what Walker's attempting to do exists only in your mind.

Contrast that with Healthcare Reform, which was the centerpiece of the Obama campaign for almost two years! And that's the difference between healthcare reform and Walker's transparent attempt to subvert democracy.

 

[Mags]

Three threads of this stuff and you still don't get it, Mags. Scott Walker did not campaign as a union buster. This fight isn't about the budget, no matter how badly you want to pretend that it is.

Show me something from the gubernatorial race last year where Walker said his plan was to bust unions and kill off the last vestige of organized labor in this country -- collective bargaining. Don't waste your time. You won't find it. The mandate for what Walker's attempting to do exists only in your mind.

Contrast that with Healthcare Reform, which was the centerpiece of the Obama campaign for almost two years! And that's the difference between healthcare reform and Walker's transparent attempt to subvert democracy.

He's not busting all unions, just public employee ones - and just for benefits.

Most educated people (including FDR) agree that there is no place or reason for public employee unions. I have not seen an editorial yet, from any newspaper, in support of the unions for public employees. Everyone said it was BAD public policy.

In the end, it won't matter. WE WILL OVERCOME!

 

[Trampled Underfoot]

I just can't believe some of the crap in this thread. Seriously? This country is really fucked up. You have everyday people fighting on behalf of corporations and against their neighbors.

 

[Trench]

Also, Walker's proposal doesn't make the unions go away. There are still there and still will be able to negotiate on wages - just not benefits.

Walker's bill only allows for wages to keep pace with the consumer price index. Where's the bargaining power in that? It's an empty concession and nothing more than a political ploy.

Like so many Tea Partiers, you see only what you want to see, Mags.

 

[Mags]

Walker's bill only allows for wages to keep pace with the consumer price index. Where's the bargaining power in that? It's an empty concession and nothing more than a political ploy.

Like so many Tea Partiers, you see only what you want to see, Mags.

So, you think it is more important to protect the rights of the 5% of the people in the state that are public employees, but the 95% of the rest that pay their salaries don't matter? :shrug:

I'd be more sympathetic if public employees were making less and had worse benefits than the private sector. But they don't. AND they have better job security.

It's just a matter of balancing the private and public sector. And its hard to argue that is not a good thing.

 

[Duff Miver]

Ah, but there is the rub. People don't have a choice regarding the unions. Certain jobs require belonging the union.

Also, Walker's proposal doesn't make the unions go away. There are still there and still will be able to negotiate on wages - just not benefits.

You are such a big proponent of choice - it is shocking that you back the health care bill and the individual mandate. Doesn't seem like much "choice" there - you have to buy insurance.

Seems like you pick flip flop a lot, depending on the argument you want to make.

Both issues are the same, same situations, people in power make the decisions. Either you like both the healthcare bill and how it was done and what Walker is doing, or you hate both of them.

I think it is the fact that you are losing this time, and the Dem's are very sore losers - in fact crybabies that run away in some instances (see, Clocktower resort, Rockford IL).. :mj07:

Your ignorance is ...infinite...unfathomable.

Here, Maggot, I'll try once more. I'm going to type reeeeaaaly slow, see if you can keep up.

Let's start with religion. The government has no right to require that you do, or do not practice any religion, it is your choice. If you do choose to join a particular religion, your choice, you will have to accept what that religion requires of you, or you will be thrown out. You cannot become an Orthodox Jew and gobble ham sandwiches.

You are free to practice religion or not, and the religion is free to make demands on you, none of the governments business. You cannot expect government to require that Jews let you in, pork chops and all.

You can go elsewhere, join another religion whose rules you like, or no religion at all. You can even start your own Church of Maggotism.

It's the same with unions. If you want to work in a union shop, you have to play by their rules, and if you don't like the rules, you are free to work where the rules suit your fancy. None of the governments business.

A union is a group of like minded people who band together of their own free will for common purpose just as like minded people establish a religion for common purpose. If you want to join them you play by their rules. The government should not bust either unions or churches to benefit a maggot.

Universal health care is something else - it is the law of the land and applies to all citizens, just like income taxes. It is a decision we as a country have made.

 

[Trench]

He's not busting all unions, just public employee ones - and just for benefits.

In the end, it won't matter. WE WILL OVERCOME!

As we transitioned from an industrial based economy to a service based economy, union membership migrated from the private sector to the public sector. Kill the public labor unions and the labor movement is dead in this country.

Thanks to union-busting corporations like Wal-Mart, less than 7% of the private sector now belong to unions. But I'd wager that if you drove over to the local Wal-Mart and polled the employees there and asked them if they'd like union representation and collective bargaining rights, you'd get a favorable response of 90% or more.

And if you polled the workers at Ipod City in Shenzhen, China, all 800,000 of them, working 12 hours a day for 83 cents an hour and asked each of them if they'd like union representation and collective bargaining rights, your favorable response would be 100%.

 

[Duff Miver]

So, you think it is more important to protect the rights of the 5% of the people in the state that are public employees, but the 95% of the rest that pay their salaries don't matter? :shrug:

I'd be more sympathetic if public employees were making less and had worse benefits than the private sector. But they don't. AND they have better job security.

It's just a matter of balancing the private and public sector. And its hard to argue that is not a good thing.

Hey, Maggot, try to pay attention. The Wisconsin union contracts were arrived at by negotiation. They were agreed to by elected public officials. Those officials could have said no.

You remind me of an asshole I know. A neighbor hood kid agreed to mow his lawn for $20. When the kid finished the work, the homeowner decided the job was worth only $10. That asshole is now your governor.

 

[UGA12]

Your ignorance is ...infinite...unfathomable.

Here, Maggot, I'll try once more. I'm going to type reeeeaaaly slow, see if you can keep up.

Let's start with religion. The government has no right to require that you do, or do not practice any religion, it is your choice. If you do choose to join a particular religion, your choice, you will have to accept what that religion requires of you, or you will be thrown out. You cannot become an Orthodox Jew and gobble ham sandwiches.

You are free to practice religion or not, and the religion is free to make demands on you, none of the governments business. You cannot expect government to require that Jews let you in, pork chops and all.

You can go elsewhere, join another religion whose rules you like, or no religion at all. You can even start your own Church of Maggotism.

It's the same with unions. If you want to work in a union shop, you have to play by their rules, and if you don't like the rules, you are free to work where the rules suit your fancy. None of the governments business.

A union is a group of like minded people who band together of their own free will for common purpose just as like minded people establish a religion for common purpose. If you want to join them you play by their rules. The government should not bust either unions or churches to benefit a maggot.

Universal health care is something else - it is the law of the land and applies to all citizens, just like income taxes. It is a decision we as a country have made.

:mj07:

 

[Chadman]

Now you have the teachers who have always said "it is all about the kids". Except when it is not, of course. Right now, they don't give a crap about the kids. They should be teaching school, and if they want to protest, go to Madison on the weekend, like normal working folks.

I addressed this point - before it was made, actually, not sure if you saw it or not. I don't agree with this perspective much, not that I'm right, I just don't think it's all that fair. I won't repost, but if you'd care to go back to my post, I'd gladly listen to your thoughts.

 

[Mags]

Your ignorance is ...infinite...unfathomable.

Here, Maggot, I'll try once more. I'm going to type reeeeaaaly slow, see if you can keep up.

Let's start with religion. The government has no right to require that you do, or do not practice any religion, it is your choice. If you do choose to join a particular religion, your choice, you will have to accept what that religion requires of you, or you will be thrown out. You cannot become an Orthodox Jew and gobble ham sandwiches.

You are free to practice religion or not, and the religion is free to make demands on you, none of the governments business. You cannot expect government to require that Jews let you in, pork chops and all.

You can go elsewhere, join another religion whose rules you like, or no religion at all. You can even start your own Church of Maggotism.

It's the same with unions. If you want to work in a union shop, you have to play by their rules, and if you don't like the rules, you are free to work where the rules suit your fancy. None of the governments business.

A union is a group of like minded people who band together of their own free will for common purpose just as like minded people establish a religion for common purpose. If you want to join them you play by their rules. The government should not bust either unions or churches to benefit a maggot.

Universal health care is something else - it is the law of the land and applies to all citizens, just like income taxes. It is a decision we as a country have made.

Maybe we need to make unions against the law so it is the "law of the land".

Well, it will be the law of the land in WI. That is a great start.

This is all about protecting taxpayers - that is as noble of a cause than one can find.

Oh yea - don't look now - but your universal health care bill has been ruled unconsitutional in its entirety - and won't last. Too funny!

You liberals just crack me up. Never had a job, never pay taxes, and just want a nanny state.

 

[Mags]

As we transitioned from an industrial based economy to a service based economy, union membership migrated from the private sector to the public sector. Kill the public labor unions and the labor movement is dead in this country.

Thanks to union-busting corporations like Wal-Mart, less than 7% of the private sector now belong to unions. But I'd wager that if you drove over to the local Wal-Mart and polled the employees there and asked them if they'd like union representation and collective bargaining rights, you'd get a favorable response of 90% or more.

And if you polled the workers at Ipod City in Shenzhen, China, all 800,000 of them, working 12 hours a day for 83 cents an hour and asked each of them if they'd like union representation and collective bargaining rights, your favorable response would be 100%.

True. But if you polled every child under the age of 15 in this country if they wanted a Pony, or even a PS3, I'll bet you'd also get a 100% response.

So what is your point?

Someone has to pay for all the free stuff - and people are sick of it. France and Greece taught American a lot the last year. And nobody wants to be them (well, the freeloaders do).

 

[Trench]

You liberals just crack me up. Never had a job, never pay taxes, and just want a nanny state.

When you make statements like this, how do you expect anyone to take anything you say seriously?

If you're liberal, you don't pay taxes and you've never held a job? Seriously Mags? :shrug:

 

[Mags]

I addressed this point - before it was made, actually, not sure if you saw it or not. I don't agree with this perspective much, not that I'm right, I just don't think it's all that fair. I won't repost, but if you'd care to go back to my post, I'd gladly listen to your thoughts.

Chad - I did read your post, and I agree with what you said, now that I thought about it more.

However, they have union leaders who should have been there. If they teachers wanted to be there, they should have used a personal day (which they all get - a few a year at least), have not called in sick fraudulently, and made sure a backup teacher was there to cover their class for them.

Really, they should have just left it to their union bosses - of which the vast majority make well over $100K to be their thug and beat people up (mostly taxpayers, in this instance). They should have served their classes and let their representation be there - isn't that what they are for?

Also, why couldn't they have gone after school instead of during school? Especially the Madison teachers. Why didn't they? Because they didn't want to give up their free time with their family, I'm guessing.